Torture memos

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Redux

YES....it is a bullshit question.
NO...i'm not gonna play your game.

no game - just a discussion of a real life situation that HAD to be dealt with. You chose not to decide that is your choice. Be very very thankful you had that option.

Originally Posted by classicman

no game - just a discussion of a real life situation that HAD to be dealt with. You chose not to decide that is your choice. Be very very thankful you had that option.

What real life situation have we faced, or even remotely possible that we may face, where the only response is that black or white.....NONE, dude.

But I am very very thankful that our current president is not making policy decisions based on TV worst case, only one solution, scenarios.....now if we could only get Scalia to retire....I will feel safer for the country's future.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Sug, post your opinion, but if you post it with that smarmy "Please don't tell me you didn't already know this", make sure you get it exactly right, or we have the right and the responsibility to pwn your ass.

UT, I said that because classicman is a very informed individual, and I found it hard to believe that I would know something that he didn't. I didn't mean it in a condescending way. I meant it in a "I can't believe you don't know this" stunned kind of way. It's hard to imagine how people mean something when they're typing on the internet, because you can't see the expression on their face or hear the inflection in their voice.

And ftr, I DID get it exactly right. We absolutely HAVE prosecuted people in the past for waterboarding.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Redux

What real life situation have we faced, or even remotely possible that we may face, where the only response is that black or white.....NONE, dude.

So you would let the thousands die - got it.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

classicman is a very informed individual

Well ow there is a first - I've been called A LOT of things...

WHAT???????? Are you high again?

[Undertoad]

Right, Sug, we have prosecuted people for the Japanese style of waterboarding.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Right, Sug, we have prosecuted people for the Japanese style of waterboarding.

I think she was also taking about the Reagan DoJ that prosecuted a Texas sheriff and deputies for waterboarding.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

I doubt la Pop will learn that until she's had her lily-pale ass pwnd a couple times. Her thinking is yet unsophisticated -- and very clone-y. Won't be pleasant, but it may mature her, and her understanding.

Meanwhile, exerpted:

...As for the slippery-slope caterwauling, the opposite is true. The slope toward more torture and abuse has gone up, not down, and it is today more difficult to climb than ever. According to existing law and Justice Department rulings, the practice has been proscribed for several years now — except, that is, for the thousands of U.S. servicemen who’ve been subjected to it by the U.S. military as part of their training. [Emph. mine]...

From here.

The difference between our servicemen being subjected to it, and a prisoner, is the servicemen KNOW they will be OK, that nothing will happen to them. The prisoners, not so much. There is a HUGE difference in the psychology of those two things.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Hey, tw, has or has not the Arctic ice cap largely expanded (like by about a fifth), not shrunk, in the past two years? That some are saying that somehow this is evidence that global warming marches on tells me the global climate models still have systemic limitations. I'm not putting much faith in these doomsday extrapolations, because I have experience with them. And those various doomsdays were supposed to be ten years ago. Or so.

According to the members of the Tara Expedition, the ice is now only 3 feet deep, and the water underneath the ice, and the air, has warmed more than they thought it would have. It took them less than a year to travel across what took 2 years to travel 100 years ago. (or something like that. I'm going from memory.) You can go watch the program yourself... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29840099/

Tw believes somebody else, somewhere in America, must believe that Saddam had something to do with 9/11. It's a stupid belief the Left has. He is secure in this belief because he's never tested it. Again, I can't name a single American who does think Saddam did it, which would seem to rather test the idea. What a silly idea tw has. And he can't let go of the silly. Well is the Left served.

HA! I actually know people who still claim that. It is not a figment of the imagination of the left.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by classicman

Try answering it with a yes or no. Why is that so hard for you to do?
There now you have two questions.

classic, he said he doesn't believe in torture, so I believe the answer is right there. No. And there ARE other methods that can be used, and in the opinion of most people who know about such things, the "other ways" to get information work better and are more reliable.

[TGRR]

Originally Posted by classicman

So you would let the thousands die - got it.

Millions.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by Redux

I think she was also taking about the Reagan DoJ that prosecuted a Texas sheriff and deputies for waterboarding.

Yes. I actually cited 3 different references, I believe, this was one of them.

And waterboarding is waterboarding. It suffocates you. You lose consciousness. You have the fear you are drowning. The fact that the Japanese did other things in addition to waterboarding means nothing.

If you are in the hands of someone you trust, as in a demonstration or training situation, then mentally you know you will be OK because you know nothing bad is going to happen to you. In the case of being in the custody of an enemy, or a prison guard, the psychology is different. You fear for your life, because you DON'T know that, ultimately, you are safe. According to the definition of torture, that applies.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

The difference between our servicemen being subjected to it, and a prisoner, is the servicemen KNOW they will be OK, that nothing will happen to them.

You have no frigging idea what you are talking about.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

But I am very very thankful that our current president is not making policy decisions based on TV worst case, only one solution, scenarios.

And if you are wrong? Will you run and hide like the rest of the Demoncratic roaches? How do you know that any president made "policy decisions based on TV worst case, only one solution, scenarios". You don't. You are talking partisan bullshit as usual. You have no frigging clue because you are not read in.

Originally Posted by classicman

So you would let the thousands die - got it.

I need more data for your real life scenario.

Is the alleged terrorist an Islamic extremist, an ideological urbane guerrilla, a mindless mercenary?

Hell, I could turn two out of the three just by playing their emotional strings....no challenge at all.