Torture memos

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

You have a problem with that. Fuck, that is exactly what I would do. You are going to tell me that you, or any other scumbag who has hit our justice system guilty as hell has not done the same? Hell, I would?

Tell me who you want to believe?

Take a side now.

Who do you believe and why?

It is pretty well known that a lot of the people down there were not terrorists. We put them there anyway, and kept them there for YEARS, without a trial, or without even charging them with a crime. So why would I believe anything the last administration said about what they were doing? All they have done, from day 1, is LIE to the Emrican people, and the rest of world. From the memos, it's clear we used torture, even while Bush was going on TV insisting that "we do not torture." My God, after Abu Ghraib, it is ASTOUNDING to me that so many people were still in denial about our actions with regards to torture. Bush has done more to ruin our standing in the world than everyone who ever went before him, combined. How will ever wipe that stain from our heritage?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

It is pretty well known that a lot of the people down there were not terrorists.

Based on what source? That is part of the problem.

We put them there anyway, and kept them there for YEARS, without a trial, or without even charging them with a crime.

Also part of the problem as I stated earlier.

So why would I believe anything the last administration said about what they were doing?

So what makes you trust the current one any more than the last?

All they have done, from day 1, is LIE to the Emrican people, and the rest of world. From the memos, it's clear we used torture, even while Bush was going on TV insisting that "we do not torture." My God, after Abu Ghraib, it is ASTOUNDING to me that so many people were still in denial about our actions with regards to torture. Bush has done more to ruin our standing in the world than everyone who ever went before him, combined. How will ever wipe that stain from our heritage?

Don't mix events that happened at Abu Ghraib with Gitmo. There is no evidence that anything close to what happened in Iraq took place in Gitmo. The rest ot that is your opinion taking right from the left-wingnut talking points.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Based on what source? That is part of the problem.

Also part of the problem as I stated earlier.

So what makes you trust the current one any more than the last?

Don't mix events that happened at Abu Ghraib with Gitmo. There is no evidence that anything close to what happened in Iraq took place in Gitmo. The rest ot that is your opinion taking right from the left-wingnut talking points.

Actually Merc, with the release of the report by the Red Cross and the torture memos, there most certainly IS evidence proving what they did. There are also videotapes of interrogations, or were. I believe it was reported that some of them were erased. Now why would they erase them if they had nothing to hide?

It has been reported for years that many of the people being held were not terrorists, but people who were swept up and held anyway, and never released based on nothing. I tend to believe investigative reporters. They deserve our respect, because they break stories that we would otherwise never know. I tend to believe the Red Cross, because they get access to places as long as they keep silent. Only someone seemed to think that report was more important, and they released it. Whoever that was deserves some kind of world recognition for what they did.

Lastly, I trust this administration more because I believe I can. So far Obama has been pretty good about keeping campaign promises and keeping his word. I NEVER felt like I could trust Bush, because he was too secretive and sneaky. He lied about things. He was a cowboy executing cowboy justice. He was arrogant. Obama is none of those things. I am extremely pissed off that they are refusing to prosecute anyone, because I think lots of people should be prosecuted, but that doesn't mean we can't trust him. In the end, I think he will have to prosecute some people. when that day comes, I will cheer from the rooftops.

[sugarpop]

I think the most compelling reason why we should not use these techniques is this... two female journalists were captured recently while reporting on a story from the Chinese - N Korean border. When asked about how the women were being treated, they replied, "we are not Gauntanamo." That was North Korea talking, for crying out loud!

Now a female journalist with dual citizenship in the United States and Iran has been tried (and I believe sentenced) in Iran for spying. I wonder how she will be treated?

This really goes to the heart of the matter. We should treat others the way WE OURSELVES want to be treated. We will not always agree on policy, or other governmental affairs, but that doesn't mean we should not show respect. If we abandon our principles and bring ourselves down to the level of terrorists, then why should we expect to be treated with any decency by anyone?

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

I think the most compelling reason why we should not use these techniques is this... two female journalists were captured recently while reporting on a story from the Chinese - N Korean border. When asked about how the women were being treated, they replied, "we are not Gauntanamo." That was North Korea talking, for crying out loud!

Now a female journalist with dual citizenship in the United States and Iran has been tried (and I believe sentenced) in Iran for spying. I wonder how she will be treated?

This really goes to the heart of the matter. We should treat others the way WE OURSELVES want to be treated. We will not always agree on policy, or other governmental affairs, but that doesn't mean we should not show respect. If we abandon our principles and bring ourselves down to the level of terrorists, then why should we expect to be treated with any decency by anyone?

This bears repeating...

[tw]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

This bears repeating...

You will have to repeat it again. Extremists routinely ignore what contradicts their political agenda. Those who know torture work learned because they saw it proven with Jack Bauer/24 on Fox TV.

What is a greatest threat to every American soldier? That Americans routinely torture and then would even lie about it.

When caught posting lies, extremists respond with more lies. So yes, repeat it again because extremists had to ignore that reality.

Should we be surprised when extremists post more cheap shots and lies about Chavez and Obama shaking hands? Liars are not ethical or honest.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

I think the most compelling reason why we should not use these techniques is this... two female journalists were captured recently while reporting on a story from the Chinese - N Korean border. When asked about how the women were being treated, they replied, "we are not Gauntanamo." That was North Korea talking, for crying out loud!

That was nothing more than a PR move. Looks like it worked on you.

Originally Posted by sugarpop

Now a female journalist with dual citizenship in the United States and Iran has been tried (and I believe sentenced) in Iran for spying. I wonder how she will be treated?

Probably not very well - Is there something that makes you think they would have treated her/them any differently a year or two ago? If so, you are kidding yourself.