Watching the Democrats - it's Fun and Macabre!

[Adak]

Originally Posted by BigV

I listened to the press conference today. The main topic was the debt ceiling. If you also listened to it, you learned that it has NOTHING AT ALL to do with "Obama's" out control spending. You ignorance of civics is the major obstacle to a real understanding of the issue, and why you're incapable of participating in a meaningful dialog on the subject. When you can demonstrate a better grasp of how our government works, come back here and we will try again to reason together.

Your disconnect denying the obvious connection between spending and the debt limit, in the face of our HUGE increase in spending under Obama, borders on a mental defect.

Consult any 10 year old - when you have only 90 cents, you don't keep buying the one dollar candy, and have to keep borrowing from your friends, to do so.

Because you will run out of THEIR money, and then you'll be broke and probably friendless for a spell, as well.

I know it's safe for a country to run up a national debt, and we don't need to panic every time the debt increases -- but come on! We can't just run our currency into the realm of being worthless and cause a monetary crisis!

As with most things, there are reasonable limits, and we have far exceeded ours.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by Adak

Your disconnect denying the obvious connection between spending and the debt limit, in the face of our HUGE increase in spending under Obama, borders on a mental defect.

First of all, I've denied nothing about any connection between spending and the debt limit. When you can cite a contrary example, your petty name-calling will be justified. Until then, you just keep your mental defect badge.

Originally Posted by Adak

Consult any 10 year old - when you have only 90 cents, you don't keep buying the one dollar candy, and have to keep borrowing from your friends, to do so.

Because you will run out of THEIR money, and then you'll be broke and probably friendless for a spell, as well.

Adak, our country's fiscal and monetary policy is not run like a ten-year-old's. You know that. When you make such a comparison, you insult me and you embarrass yourself. Please stop it.

Originally Posted by Adak

I know it's safe for a country to run up a national debt, and we don't need to panic every time the debt increases -- but come on! We can't just run our currency into the realm of being worthless and cause a monetary crisis!

As with most things, there are reasonable limits, and we have far exceeded ours.

Ok, now to the obvious connection between our spending the debt ceiling. I notice now you use rational, neutral terms like "our" and "a country". I am glad for the change of tone, thanks. If you think we've far exceeded the reasonable limit to our borrowing, what is that limit? How much debt do you think we can reasonably bear?

A more pressing question is how to deal with the debt limit now. We both listened to the President's press conference of the other day, I'll tell you now, I agree with his characterization of the debt ceiling and what to do about it and importantly, what not to do about it. Last first--dithering and arguing and fiddlefarting around while NOT immediately and decisively raising the debt ceiling is all by itself a very bad idea. Acting (Congressional acting) as though there might be any kind of suggestion whatsoever that the United States will not pay our debts is irresponsible and dangerous.

That is just the effect that trying to link debt ceiling increases, which must be done by Congress, with any other business. Anything besides "Yes, and here's the limit (which in my opinion should be high enough to make further such discussion moot for a year or more), generates more of that "uncertainty" that is anathema to the business community. It's a Bad. Idea.

What is your position?

[Adak]

Originally Posted by BigV

First of all, I've denied nothing about any connection between spending and the debt limit. When you can cite a contrary example, your petty name-calling will be justified. Until then, you just keep your mental defect badge.

Well, I don't hear it being mentioned - over a TRILLION dollars every year, and we're all worried about taxing the rich. Great - that will last the gov't about 3 weeks, max.

Big deal.

Adak, our country's fiscal and monetary policy is not run like a ten-year-old's. You know that. When you make such a comparison, you insult me and you embarrass yourself. Please stop it.

You do know that our credit rating has already been downgraded, and will be downgraded again, this year, if we don't QUIT OUR OVER-SPENDING!

It may be in the future, but over-spending is one of THE ways to initiate a monetary crisis - and we NEVER want one of those!

Ok, now to the obvious connection between our spending the debt ceiling. I notice now you use rational, neutral terms like "our" and "a country". I am glad for the change of tone, thanks. If you think we've far exceeded the reasonable limit to our borrowing, what is that limit? How much debt do you think we can reasonably bear?

It's usually measured in percent of the country's GDP. Ours is quite high, but I haven't seen the actual % in a while now. You can look it up easily enough. Over 90% is worrisome. Over 100% is very troubling. The thing is, you never know when the good faith of people in our ability to handle the debt, will suddenly evaporate. It happens with a rapid onset. Takes your breath away.

A more pressing question is how to deal with the debt limit now. We both listened to the President's press conference of the other day, I'll tell you now, I agree with his characterization of the debt ceiling and what to do about it and importantly, what not to do about it. Last first--dithering and arguing and fiddlefarting around while NOT immediately and decisively raising the debt ceiling is all by itself a very bad idea. Acting (Congressional acting) as though there might be any kind of suggestion whatsoever that the United States will not pay our debts is irresponsible and dangerous.

Oh, we'll pay the debt, and we have the money for it. But Obama WILL NOT even discuss current (actual) spending cuts. He will reluctantly discuss cuts in FUTURE over-spending growth! So we're talking about pennies, instead of $1,00 dollar bills here. It's peanuts, and does nothing to stop devaluation of our dollar.

The Republicans are going to be more and more desperate to bring Obama around to a compromise on the ACTUAL CURRENT SPENDING. How can they do that? They'll have to force it, at some point. Just a matter of when.

That is just the effect that trying to link debt ceiling increases, which must be done by Congress, with any other business. Anything besides "Yes, and here's the limit (which in my opinion should be high enough to make further such discussion moot for a year or more), generates more of that "uncertainty" that is anathema to the business community. It's a Bad. Idea.

What is your position?

I agree, it's a TERRIBLE idea to keep running around this fiscal cliff nonsense. But, it's the only thing the Republicans have left. Talking is no go with Obama. Spending cuts (real and immediate), have been off limits with Obama - always. His budgets are a complete disaster, according to his Secretary of the Treasury, in sworn testimony.

That's why they've never even been voted on. Even Democrats aren't THAT crazy! The spending is the big white elephant in the living room, and it's not going away. We are going to have to deal with it - one way or another.