This is MY America!

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

For the people with power (as of now) , it is only a one-way street because only whites have power.

The white supremacy is institutionalized, that is the problem, we don't notice it. You don't have to be against minorities to hurt them, you just to not have to notice that you are thinking that (white=normal and white=better) subconsciously.

I need to stress the last word again, subconsciously.

I think you give it to much credibility. I think that most leaders of comercial business care more about price and product than the color of someone's skin. I would be interested to see if there is emperical data out there that proves, other than a casual observation that general relationships occur, other than a sort of Bible Code relationship if you will, that choices by leaders in business, who happen to be white, are made because of skin color. I do not believe they are. I think it is more of a statistical observation based on simple majorities.

[piercehawkeye45]

Commercialism has nothing to do with this.

The people that write history books are the ones that have to do with this among other people.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Commercialism has nothing to do with this.

The people that write history books are the ones that have to do with this among other people.

Commercialism has everything to do with it. It is about money and opportunity, which leads to advancement and prosperity... the American Dream. People come from all over the world for it.

As far as history books are concerned, there are some definate problems there. We could open a whole other thread to discuss that subject. I do know that there are significant attempts by many special interest minority organizations to re-write history. And I am not just talking about race here, religion as well. Even in the UK: http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23398688-details/Don't+teach+that+marriage+is+best+say+academics/article.do

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Commercialism has nothing to do with this.

The people that write history books are the ones that have to do with this among other people.

That's the lamest excuse in the world. Stop looking back and start looking forward, if you want to accomplish something. Listen to Bill Cosby, he was shouted down for telling the absolute truth. The only way to oppress someone in the US today, is convince them they can't because someone is holding them down. Convince them they are powerless and shouldn't try. That's been the formula since the first slave/servant/peon in history.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

That's the lamest excuse in the world. Stop looking back and start looking forward, if you want to accomplish something.

How is that an excuse? Only learning about white history is something that may seem small but has big effects. That is the racism that hurts America.

Listen to Bill Cosby, he was shouted down for telling the absolute truth. The only way to oppress someone in the US today, is convince them they can't because someone is holding them down. Convince them they are powerless and shouldn't try. That's been the formula since the first slave/servant/peon in history.

You like Bill Cosby because he is saying what you want to hear. He is saying one extreme while other people say the other when it is the middle ground. Not many blacks can relate to Bill and the person I've heard criticize him the most comes from someone who got a graduate degree from Yale recently so it isn't just an excuse.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

...and the person I've heard criticize him the most comes from someone who got a graduate degree from Yale recently so it isn't just an excuse.

Come on you know that doesn't hold water in public opinion. Cosby is a leader in the black community. Many people respect him.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Don't tell me why I do anything, got it?
White history? What the fuck is white history? US history? Do you want to change George Washington to Chinese?

Cosby speaks the truth, if you go to a job interview dressed like a hood with your hat on sideways and speaking ebonics, you're not going to get hired. It that so hard to understand?
There's no future in sitting on your ass whining how the man is keeping you down, that's complete bullshit. Dropping out of school guarantees poverty.

Not working for something better because you think you have to work harder than somebody else, is hurting nobody but yourself. Guess what, everybody has to work harder than somebody, that's life.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Don't tell me why I do anything, got it?
White history? What the fuck is white history? US history? Do you want to change George Washington to Chinese?

No, just the sole focus on white history by leaving out all other cultures.

Cosby speaks the truth, if you go to a job interview dressed like a hood with your hat on sideways and speaking ebonics, you're not going to get hired. It that so hard to understand?

That is not what people are criticizing him for. Most people actually agree with what you just said. It’s about his lack of understanding of where most blacks are coming from.

There's no future in sitting on your ass whining how the man is keeping you down, that's complete bullshit. Dropping out of school guarantees poverty.

Do you have any idea why these kids drop out of school or the pressures involved? Do you have any idea what their lives are like? It is easy to criticize from an outside standpoint when you have no understanding of what their world is like. Obviously, there will be work involved and I, with most other people, do not want to give them a free ticket if they do not earn it I am talking about the obstacles engrained in society that are holding them back. Every source I've heard has said that the general feelings in inner city schools are much different than suburban which will cause great effects in the future.

Not working for something better because you think you have to work harder than somebody else, is hurting nobody but yourself. Guess what, everybody has to work harder than somebody, that's life.

If blacks have to work harder than whites that is racism within the system.

[Ibby]

The problem has moved from the "man" keeping people down to the culture keeping itself down. Bruce has got it.
Black "ghetto" or "gangsta" culture is just as damaging as any post-60s discrimination. It's a culture that centers on crime, a culture that values idiocy, a culture that supports poverty - a culture that creates and enforces all the negative stereotypes.

When people buck the "ghetto" culture, they buck the tendency to fail.

[lumberjim]

If you were more careful with your punctuation, you would sound less like a crazy person. just a tip.

[piercehawkeye45]

For History, I am talking more about world history. It is very euro-centric and the only time Africa comes up is when they talk about religions and Egypt.

Here’s an example how white supremacy is in history. Of course, there is Columbus discovery America, and then the Vikings, and very rarely will they say anything about the Arabs, but what about the Africans that have been to America before Columbus? Never in history class was something like that even close to being mentioned.

Yes, most Americans are European but it is insane how euro-centric history classes are.

I am not 100% certain but I think Bill Cosby is criticized because he is does not the address the racial inequalities that do exist, but blames it all on the community. There is a difference from pointing out what is there, blowing it out of proportion, and saying what isn’t there. He just does the opposite of what most known black leader’s do, which isn’t necessarily better, but I will say a step up.

And I was talking about K-12. I understand that college history is usually a lot different than K-12 history.

This is what I am talking about with institutionalized racism. Ever heard of Jane Elliott

Watch all five videos. Its long (50 or so minutes) but it gives a good idea of how institutionalized white supremacy works and effects of it.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=l0gUchvopOc

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

For History, I am talking more about world history. It is very euro-centric and the only time Africa comes up is when they talk about religions and Egypt.

How is Africa's or Asia's, or India's or Australia's history important to American K-12 students? World history can only be alloted so much time in a full curriculum. US history is more important for American students to understand and US history is eurocentric.

Here’s an example how white supremacy is in history. Of course, there is Columbus discovery America, and then the Vikings, and very rarely will they say anything about the Arabs, but what about the Africans that have been to America before Columbus? Never in history class was something like that even close to being mentioned.

You're right there, I never heard of it. Are you talking about Thor Heyerdahl theory? Tell me how this effects US history any more than the people that have been here 10, 20, 30 thousand years?

Yes, most Americans are European but it is insane how euro-centric history classes are.

well duh, US history is eurocentric.

I am not 100% certain but I think Bill Cosby is criticized because he is does not the address the racial inequalities that do exist, but blames it all on the community. There is a difference from pointing out what is there, blowing it out of proportion, and saying what isn’t there. He just does the opposite of what most known black leader’s do, which isn’t necessarily better, but I will say a step up.

Unlike Mr Cosby, "Most Black Leaders" are making a tidy living off perpetuating inequality.... it's their bread & butter. How did these people become the black leaders? By telling people to get off their asses and make something of themselves then turn around and help those that follow? Of course not, it was by telling People what they wanted to hear. Tell them it's not their fault, it's whitey keeping them down. There's a fortune in perpetuating the 50's. Black people of my generation, that I work with, had it tough, damn near intolerable. I don't think I could have gone through what they did without exploding. Even they are disgusted with these whining kids.

And I was talking about K-12. I understand that college history is usually a lot different than K-12 history.

This is what I am talking about with institutionalized racism. Ever heard of Jane Elliott

Watch all five videos. Its long (50 or so minutes) but it gives a good idea of how institutionalized white supremacy works and effects of it.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=l0gUchvopOc

Yeah, I'm aware of Elliots games, and no it doesn't translate to the real world without intentional application. That ain't happening.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

How is Africa's or Asia's, or India's or Australia's history important to American K-12 students? World history can only be alloted so much time in a full curriculum. US history is more important for American students to understand and US history is eurocentric.

And Europe's history is very dependant on Africa's, Asia's, and India's history. World history is important because it shows how everything came to be with foreign policy and current events.

You're right there, I never heard of it. Are you talking about Thor Heyerdahl theory? Tell me how this effects US history any more than the people that have been here 10, 20, 30 thousand years?
well duh, US history is eurocentric.

It affects world and African history. If you do not want world history to be taught fine, but I personally think we should learn about other lifestyles so we can understand current events and other countries.

Unlike Mr Cosby, "Most Black Leaders" are making a tidy living off perpetuating inequality.... it's their bread & butter. How did these people become the black leaders? By telling people to get off their asses and make something of themselves then turn around and help those that follow? Of course not, it was by telling People what they wanted to hear. Tell them it's not their fault, it's whitey keeping them down. There's a fortune in perpetuating the 50's. Black people of my generation, that I work with, had it tough, damn near intolerable. I don't think I could have gone through what they did without exploding. Even they are disgusted with these whining kids.

Or you could go for the middle ground, which neither of them hit.

Yeah, I'm aware of Elliots games, and no it doesn't translate to the real world without intentional application. That ain't happening.

I'm calling you out on that. It may not be as intensive as that but there is no way that it doesn't apply. Just because you don't recognize white supremacy in America doesn't mean that it isn't there.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

And Europe's history is very dependant on Africa's, Asia's, and India's history. World history is important because it shows how everything came to be with foreign policy and current events.

Are you going to spend the whole day on World history? There's only so much time, that's not going to increase, so tell me what you want to cut? US history? English? Math? Science? What is less important than World history?

It affects world and African history. If you do not want world history to be taught fine, but I personally think we should learn about other lifestyles so we can understand current events and other countries.

Then major in it when you get to college. You still haven't told me about these Africans that came to the Americas before Columbus, I'm all ears.

Or you could go for the middle ground, which neither of them hit.

Sure you could do that, but the truth would be better.

I'm calling you out on that. It may not be as intensive as that but there is no way that it doesn't apply. Just because you don't recognize white supremacy in America doesn't mean that it isn't there.

Just because you imagine the nation is rife with white supremacy doesn't make it so. But white supremacy is such a nebulous term, what the fuck is the definition white supremacy in your little world? Whites are still the majority, am I supposed to be ashamed of that?

Of course people have prejudices, that's the way people are, you can't change that. That doesn't make it institutionalized. And guess what, with the rise of the gangsta/rapper culture there's a lot more prejudice than there was 30 years ago. But it's still a lame excuse for quiting.

Don't tell me that minorities can't get out of poverty if they are willing to work for it. Perhaps you missed the thread on Billion Dollar Roundtable, a handful of companies that spent over $24Billion, with a B, buying stuff from minority and women's businesses last year. Are you telling me these businesses aren't hiring qualified minorities and women? Qualified, not drop outs. Not ebonics speaking thugs, either.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Are you going to spend the whole day on World history? There's only so much time, that's not going to increase, so tell me what you want to cut? US history? English? Math? Science? What is less important than World history?

I learned about world history and we didn't cut anything.

Then major in it when you get to college. You still haven't told me about these Africans that came to the Americas before Columbus, I'm all ears.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/af...chapter3.shtml

Just because you imagine the nation is rife with white supremacy doesn't make it so. But white supremacy is such a nebulous term, what the fuck is the definition white supremacy in your little world? Whites are still the majority, am I supposed to be ashamed of that?

White Supremacy is where the people with power are white and act in the intrests of whites. The news corporations assume all white readers. Is America ready for Obama? No, is white America ready for Obama? Black America is more than ready for Obama. The assumption that America = white America is white supremacy.

Don't tell me that minorities can't get out of poverty if they are willing to work for it. Perhaps you missed the thread on Billion Dollar Roundtable, a handful of companies that spent over $24Billion, with a B, buying stuff from minority and women's businesses last year. Are you telling me these businesses aren't hiring qualified minorities and women? Qualified, not drop outs. Not ebonics speaking thugs, either.

I'm not saying that it is impossible, just the difficulty is unreasonable. A white suburban kid can get to graduate school without a sweat but a black inner city kid has to work his ass off, sometime with multiple jobs to get to that point. Scholarships go about 50/50 so it isn't much of an advantage either.