This is MY America!

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

If blacks have to work harder than whites that is racism within the system.

Please...

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

No, just the sole focus on white history by leaving out all other cultures.

Assuming you're talking about k-12, I had the history of the World, it was pretty condensed which would be expected and the history of the US which was pretty white. There weren't a lot of important slaves in US history. Others, like the Indians, Mexicans, Canadians, Hawaiians are mentioned when they were significant to the US history. The fact that the US was created by white people, and it's leaders have been white people should be altered to bolster the minority self esteem? There has been some minority inventors and entrepreneurs who made big contributions to lifestyle, but they were not our leaders. History class can't cover all the other people, non leaders, that contributed to building the country, because there are other subjects they have to learn too.

That is not what people are criticizing him for. Most people actually agree with what you just said. It’s about his lack of understanding of where most blacks are coming from.

Bullshit, he knows exactly where they are coming from. He came from a poor family when there really was discrimination, when it really was tough for a black kid to get anywhere. His advantage was, it was a time when parents parented and didn't allow their kids to give up 'cause the man was holding them down. They were told to get their ass in gear and do the best they could... if they wanted to have something they would have to work for it... that the people they should look up to were not gangsta's, drug dealers and asshole athletes. They were more worried about disappointing their parents or getting a trip to the wood shed than their self esteem.

Do you have any idea why these kids drop out of school or the pressures involved? Do you have any idea what their lives are like? It is easy to criticize from an outside standpoint when you have no understanding of what their world is like. Obviously, there will be work involved and I, with most other people, do not want to give them a free ticket if they do not earn it I am talking about the obstacles engrained in society that are holding them back. Every source I've heard has said that the general feelings in inner city schools are much different than suburban which will cause great effects in the future.

The obstacles they face today are lack of parenting and largely created in their own society. Rap/gangsta culture, screwed up values, blame the man instead of taking personal responsibility and buying into the 'poor me' mentality is what is killing their chances to make it, not whitey.

If blacks have to work harder than whites that is racism within the system.

They don't, they have to work harder than people that are smarter than they are. They have to work harder than people that will settle for less. They have to work harder than the people that sit on their ass collecting welfare, street hustling and blaming whitey.

I see minorities, every day, promoted to their level of incompetence... and beyond... because cultural diversity is politically correct. As a matter of fact my boss is black. He doesn't strike me as a genius, just a regular guy that worked hard to get what he's got. He's successful because he EARNED it.

Since you're so convinced it's all my fault, tell me what you expect me to do about it? Yes you are... I'm white, I'm part of the oppressive system, I'm the man.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I'm the man.

Yes, yes you are, and you do a fine good job of it.

[piercehawkeye45]

For History, I am talking more about world history. It is very euro-centric and the only time Africa comes up is when they talk about religions and Egypt.

Here’s an example how white supremacy is in history. Of course, there is Columbus discovery America, and then the Vikings, and very rarely will they say anything about the Arabs, but what about the Africans that have been to America before Columbus? Never in history class was something like that even close to being mentioned.

Yes, most Americans are European but it is insane how euro-centric history classes are.

I am not 100% certain but I think Bill Cosby is criticized because he is does not the address the racial inequalities that do exist, but blames it all on the community. There is a difference from pointing out what is there, blowing it out of proportion, and saying what isn’t there. He just does the opposite of what most known black leader’s do, which isn’t necessarily better, but I will say a step up.

And I was talking about K-12. I understand that college history is usually a lot different than K-12 history.

This is what I am talking about with institutionalized racism. Ever heard of Jane Elliott

Watch all five videos. Its long (50 or so minutes) but it gives a good idea of how institutionalized white supremacy works and effects of it.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=l0gUchvopOc

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

For History, I am talking more about world history. It is very euro-centric and the only time Africa comes up is when they talk about religions and Egypt.

How is Africa's or Asia's, or India's or Australia's history important to American K-12 students? World history can only be alloted so much time in a full curriculum. US history is more important for American students to understand and US history is eurocentric.

Here’s an example how white supremacy is in history. Of course, there is Columbus discovery America, and then the Vikings, and very rarely will they say anything about the Arabs, but what about the Africans that have been to America before Columbus? Never in history class was something like that even close to being mentioned.

You're right there, I never heard of it. Are you talking about Thor Heyerdahl theory? Tell me how this effects US history any more than the people that have been here 10, 20, 30 thousand years?

Yes, most Americans are European but it is insane how euro-centric history classes are.

well duh, US history is eurocentric.

I am not 100% certain but I think Bill Cosby is criticized because he is does not the address the racial inequalities that do exist, but blames it all on the community. There is a difference from pointing out what is there, blowing it out of proportion, and saying what isn’t there. He just does the opposite of what most known black leader’s do, which isn’t necessarily better, but I will say a step up.

Unlike Mr Cosby, "Most Black Leaders" are making a tidy living off perpetuating inequality.... it's their bread & butter. How did these people become the black leaders? By telling people to get off their asses and make something of themselves then turn around and help those that follow? Of course not, it was by telling People what they wanted to hear. Tell them it's not their fault, it's whitey keeping them down. There's a fortune in perpetuating the 50's. Black people of my generation, that I work with, had it tough, damn near intolerable. I don't think I could have gone through what they did without exploding. Even they are disgusted with these whining kids.

And I was talking about K-12. I understand that college history is usually a lot different than K-12 history.

This is what I am talking about with institutionalized racism. Ever heard of Jane Elliott

Watch all five videos. Its long (50 or so minutes) but it gives a good idea of how institutionalized white supremacy works and effects of it.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=l0gUchvopOc

Yeah, I'm aware of Elliots games, and no it doesn't translate to the real world without intentional application. That ain't happening.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

How is Africa's or Asia's, or India's or Australia's history important to American K-12 students? World history can only be alloted so much time in a full curriculum. US history is more important for American students to understand and US history is eurocentric.

And Europe's history is very dependant on Africa's, Asia's, and India's history. World history is important because it shows how everything came to be with foreign policy and current events.

You're right there, I never heard of it. Are you talking about Thor Heyerdahl theory? Tell me how this effects US history any more than the people that have been here 10, 20, 30 thousand years?
well duh, US history is eurocentric.

It affects world and African history. If you do not want world history to be taught fine, but I personally think we should learn about other lifestyles so we can understand current events and other countries.

Unlike Mr Cosby, "Most Black Leaders" are making a tidy living off perpetuating inequality.... it's their bread & butter. How did these people become the black leaders? By telling people to get off their asses and make something of themselves then turn around and help those that follow? Of course not, it was by telling People what they wanted to hear. Tell them it's not their fault, it's whitey keeping them down. There's a fortune in perpetuating the 50's. Black people of my generation, that I work with, had it tough, damn near intolerable. I don't think I could have gone through what they did without exploding. Even they are disgusted with these whining kids.

Or you could go for the middle ground, which neither of them hit.

Yeah, I'm aware of Elliots games, and no it doesn't translate to the real world without intentional application. That ain't happening.

I'm calling you out on that. It may not be as intensive as that but there is no way that it doesn't apply. Just because you don't recognize white supremacy in America doesn't mean that it isn't there.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

And Europe's history is very dependant on Africa's, Asia's, and India's history. World history is important because it shows how everything came to be with foreign policy and current events.

Are you going to spend the whole day on World history? There's only so much time, that's not going to increase, so tell me what you want to cut? US history? English? Math? Science? What is less important than World history?

It affects world and African history. If you do not want world history to be taught fine, but I personally think we should learn about other lifestyles so we can understand current events and other countries.

Then major in it when you get to college. You still haven't told me about these Africans that came to the Americas before Columbus, I'm all ears.

Or you could go for the middle ground, which neither of them hit.

Sure you could do that, but the truth would be better.

I'm calling you out on that. It may not be as intensive as that but there is no way that it doesn't apply. Just because you don't recognize white supremacy in America doesn't mean that it isn't there.

Just because you imagine the nation is rife with white supremacy doesn't make it so. But white supremacy is such a nebulous term, what the fuck is the definition white supremacy in your little world? Whites are still the majority, am I supposed to be ashamed of that?

Of course people have prejudices, that's the way people are, you can't change that. That doesn't make it institutionalized. And guess what, with the rise of the gangsta/rapper culture there's a lot more prejudice than there was 30 years ago. But it's still a lame excuse for quiting.

Don't tell me that minorities can't get out of poverty if they are willing to work for it. Perhaps you missed the thread on Billion Dollar Roundtable, a handful of companies that spent over $24Billion, with a B, buying stuff from minority and women's businesses last year. Are you telling me these businesses aren't hiring qualified minorities and women? Qualified, not drop outs. Not ebonics speaking thugs, either.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Are you going to spend the whole day on World history? There's only so much time, that's not going to increase, so tell me what you want to cut? US history? English? Math? Science? What is less important than World history?

I learned about world history and we didn't cut anything.

Then major in it when you get to college. You still haven't told me about these Africans that came to the Americas before Columbus, I'm all ears.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/af...chapter3.shtml

Just because you imagine the nation is rife with white supremacy doesn't make it so. But white supremacy is such a nebulous term, what the fuck is the definition white supremacy in your little world? Whites are still the majority, am I supposed to be ashamed of that?

White Supremacy is where the people with power are white and act in the intrests of whites. The news corporations assume all white readers. Is America ready for Obama? No, is white America ready for Obama? Black America is more than ready for Obama. The assumption that America = white America is white supremacy.

Don't tell me that minorities can't get out of poverty if they are willing to work for it. Perhaps you missed the thread on Billion Dollar Roundtable, a handful of companies that spent over $24Billion, with a B, buying stuff from minority and women's businesses last year. Are you telling me these businesses aren't hiring qualified minorities and women? Qualified, not drop outs. Not ebonics speaking thugs, either.

I'm not saying that it is impossible, just the difficulty is unreasonable. A white suburban kid can get to graduate school without a sweat but a black inner city kid has to work his ass off, sometime with multiple jobs to get to that point. Scholarships go about 50/50 so it isn't much of an advantage either.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by Flint

They lacked the pandemic biological advantage of more disease-ridden Europeans, as the Vikings came through the decontamination zone of frigid lands where nasty microbes cannot survive outside the human body. Incidentally, the same reason the Natives had no resistance to Europeans sicknesses, they had come through the decontamination zone of the Bering Strait, and peopled a continent with no resistance to common bugs.

Interesting point, but here's another that seems even more valid: Europe, Africa, and Asia are all land-connected and in each of these places, animal husbandry is practiced. Smallpox in particular is associated with keeping cattle, as in all likelihood it's a small mutation of cowpox. Waves of smallpox infections can travel back and forth from one end of a continent and then back, like reflected waves off a seawall. Multiple continents, inhabited by humans, seem to mean a deeper pool of varied human diseases. Add in some other vectors (by a roll of the genetic dice) and look what you come up with.

Nor did it, we suspect, all go one way. In the early 1490s, syphilis, then present in Europe, suddenly turned virulent and a plague of it swept across the Continent. The timing seems more than a little suspicious.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

I learned about world history and we didn't cut anything.

So why are bitching it's not taught?
Didn't cut anything, yet people study World history their whole lives and never learn it all.
Don't be fooled into thinking what you thought you learned, is all there is. I guarantee it's not.
I say 'thought' you learned, because you might have gotten it wrong, as far as it's effect on the World that's not always apparent.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/af...chapter3.shtmlYour link says...

"So Abubakar equipped 200 ships filled with men and the same number equipped with gold, water, and provisions, enough to last them for years…they departed and a long time passed before anyone came back. Then one ship returned and we asked the captain what news they brought.

He said, 'Yes, Oh Sultan, we travelled for a long time until there appeared in the open sea a river with a powerful current…the other ships went on ahead, but when they reached that place, they did not return and no more was seen of them…As for me, I went about at once and did not enter the river.'

The Sultan got ready 2,000 ships, 1,000 for himself and the men whom he took with him, and 1,000 for water and provisions. He left me to deputise for him and embarked on the Atlantic Ocean with his men. That was the last we saw of him and all those who were with him.

And so, I became king in my own right."
Mansa Musa, talking to Syrian scholar Al-Umari.

This is your evidence Africans came to North America before Columbus? Nigga, please.

White Supremacy is where the people with power are white and act in the intrests of whites. The news corporations assume all white readers. Is America ready for Obama? No, is white America ready for Obama? Black America is more than ready for Obama. The assumption that America = white America is white supremacy.

You don't think the papers know down to the gnat's eyebrow, who's buying their papers?
Is white America ready for Obama... because the country is what, 12% black and I doubt many of the Ganstas and gang bangers vote so take off some for them. Take some more for children and people that don't bother. Limited power base, isn't it?
Do you understand why they aren't targeted more by the politicians. Not saying their votes aren't important or sought, just limited. I'll bet more Hispanics vote than blacks.

I'm not saying that it is impossible, just the difficulty is unreasonable. A white suburban kid can get to graduate school without a sweat but a black inner city kid has to work his ass off, sometime with multiple jobs to get to that point. Scholarships go about 50/50 so it isn't much of an advantage either.

Where the fuck did you grow up? Graduate school without sweat? And pay for it too?
Now I see your problem, grew up privileged and are suffering guilt pangs. Here's a tip, don't. Just take it and run with it, make a fortune and put some ghetto kids through college. It'll make you warm and fuzzy, plus you'll become part of the solution.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

So why are bitching it's not taught?

Because I want to improve the system...

Didn't cut anything, yet people study World history their whole lives and never learn it all.
Don't be fooled into thinking what you thought you learned, is all there is. I guarantee it's not.
I say 'thought' you learned, because you might have gotten it wrong, as far as it's effect on the World that's not always apparent.

The same goes for US history and you still want that taught.

This is your evidence Africans came to North America before Columbus? Nigga, please.

If you want more, here you go.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Col...ntact#Africans
http://www.jannah.org/articles/precolumbus.html

You don't think the papers know down to the gnat's eyebrow, who's buying their papers?
Is white America ready for Obama... because the country is what, 12% black and I doubt many of the Ganstas and gang bangers vote so take off some for them. Take some more for children and people that don't bother. Limited power base, isn't it?
Do you understand why they aren't targeted more by the politicians. Not saying their votes aren't important or sought, just limited. I'll bet more Hispanics vote than blacks.

That has nothing to do with "White America = America" and how that is white supremacy. You just said they are the minority, which is pretty obvious. You can't just ignore the minority or issues like racism and effects of it will show up.

Where the fuck did you grow up? Graduate school without sweat? And pay for it too?
Now I see your problem, grew up privileged and are suffering guilt pangs. Here's a tip, don't. Just take it and run with it, make a fortune and put some ghetto kids through college. It'll make you warm and fuzzy, plus you'll become part of the solution.

I am not just talking about suburban kids. I will have to take out loans and pay for it just like most of the rest of the middle class in America.

Guilt pangs? Or maybe I see the system as unfair and want to help to change it. You can view them as the same for all I care but I'm not just going to say "fuck you" to everyone that isn't me or isn't like me.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I'm not saying "fuck you" either.
I'm also not saying "after you".
You want it, earn it like I do.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Interesting point, but here's another that seems even more valid: Europe, Africa, and Asia are all land-connected and in each of these places, animal husbandry is practiced. Smallpox in particular is associated with keeping cattle, as in all likelihood it's a small mutation of cowpox. Waves of smallpox infections can travel back and forth from one end of a continent and then back, like reflected waves off a seawall. Multiple continents, inhabited by humans, seem to mean a deeper pool of varied human diseases. Add in some other vectors (by a roll of the genetic dice) and look what you come up with.

Excellent point.
These cattle-vector disease were not present in the Americas; because #1 no cattle! and #2 the aforementioned decontaminated populace.

A curiously overlooked factor in the "settling" of the "new lands" was that everywhere the Europeans went, there were empty villages and crops already planted! At the time, the massive scale of biological depopulation was well-documented, usually attributed to a gift from God. It is questionable whether European culture would have been able to sustain an outpost of their civilization, had it not been for nature's "helping hand" ...

Our history textbooks, by omitting the disease factor, leave a story in which the Europeans, even if not sqeaky clean on a moral basis, at least prevailed due to some inherent superiority over the Native people. This is Eurocentricism, in other words White Supremacy.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I thought the diseases that wiped out many of the tribal villages came from the Spanish explorers that traveled all the major river in the Americas for a look-see. This was well before anyone came with the intension of staying.

[Flint]

Yes, the diseases came from Europe with the Europeans that came from Europe.