What would Martin Niemoller think about Arizona? - Page 31

jinx · 06-28-2010, 08:10 PM

After 6 attempts over several years, in 2003 an appellate court upheld Fox New's first amendment right to report false information. The court decided that the FCC position against news distortion is only a policy, not a law, rule, or regulation.

Raise your standards UG.

lumberjim · 06-28-2010, 08:18 PM

We in the cellar have upped our standards, so ....up yours!

Urbane Guerrilla · 06-28-2010, 08:52 PM

Jinx, all I can say is you must raise yours. Plenty of room up here at my level, and it's really pretty nice. I'm blessed with enlightenment and intelligence. You could be. Doesn't worry me any.

Part of my intellectual quality is in how I resist the silly and narrow shibboleths of Northeastern liberal opinion, which tends to mire itself in misperception. I get out of that verkrampte region; I've been around the world. (Professional New Yorkers seem to me provincial and rather Babbity.) I've seen the regrettable results of too much government, strongman government, and so on. What you see here is the result of that experience. Now since when have you manifested anything comparable?

jinx · 06-28-2010, 08:58 PM

After 6 attempts over several years, in 2003 an appellate court upheld Fox New's first amendment right to report false information.

xoxoxoBruce · 06-29-2010, 01:23 AM

Hmmm

TheMercenary · 06-29-2010, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Hmmm

Well that certainly puts another nail in that coffin of public opinion supporting immigration reform.

Spexxvet · 06-29-2010, 07:44 AM

How would it be different if the same law was applied to illegal drugs or illegal handguns? "You look suspiciously like you have illegal drugs or an illegal handgun on your person. Prove that you don't."

Spexxvet · 06-29-2010, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Hmmm

Maybe real. Maybe a plant, 'shopped, or sarcasm from an opponent. Is there any more info on this?

xoxoxoBruce · 06-29-2010, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

How would it be different if the same law was applied to illegal drugs or illegal handguns? "You look suspiciously like you have illegal drugs or an illegal handgun on your person. Prove that you don't."

They already do that for anyone they have detained, no different from this law.

06-29-2010, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

They already do that for anyone they have detained, no different from this law.

I dont think it is the same at all.

Legislating or regulating the criminal possession of guns and drugs are within the purview of the states.

Being an illegal immigrant is a federal crime. AZ is attempting to make it a state crime with restrictions above the federal law (that a person can be questioned about immigration status w/o being held for other crimes).

TheMercenary · 06-29-2010, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redux

Being an illegal immigrant is a federal crime. AZ is attempting to make it a state crime with restrictions above the federal law (that a person can be questioned about immigration status w/o being held for other crimes).

The restrictions are the same as what the feds can do. They can still question someone about thier immigration status and hold them for that reason alone. ICE does it everyday. The threshold in the AZ law is lower, they can only do this if they are being detained or stopped for other reasons.

06-29-2010, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

The restrictions are the same as what the feds can do. They can still question someone about thier immigration status and hold them for that reason alone. ICE does it everyday. The threshold in the AZ law is lower, they can only do this if they are being detained or stopped for other reasons.

No....under the AZ law, the police can question a person on immigration status based solely on "reasonable suspicion" of being illegal with NO other reason for having been detained. This is a higher threshold than current federal immigration law.

TheMercenary · 06-29-2010, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redux

No....under the AZ law, the police can question a person on immigration status based solely on "reasonable suspicion" with NO other reason for having been detained.

Ok, even if this is the case, that is no different from what the feds can do now.

06-29-2010, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Ok, even if this is the case, that is no different from what the feds can do now.

No...under federal immigration law, state/local law enforcement officials can question one's immigration status ONLY when a person is being detained for another cause.

The federal law does not allow cops to determine, based on "reasonable suspicion" (undefined), that a person may be illegal and require that person to prove his citizenship/residency.

TheMercenary · 06-29-2010, 10:55 AM

I stand corrected, they can stop them to check for immigration status. I still don't see or have a problem with it. Here is the Bill that the majority of the Obama administration failed to even read before they commented on it's evilness.

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

06-28-2010, 08:10 PM	#451
jinx Come on, cat. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: general vicinity of Philadelphia area Posts: 7,013	After 6 attempts over several years, in 2003 an appellate court upheld Fox New's first amendment right to report false information. The court decided that the FCC position against news distortion is only a policy, not a law, rule, or regulation. Raise your standards UG. __________________ Crying won't help you, praying won't do you no good.

06-28-2010, 08:18 PM	#452
lumberjim I can hear my ears Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 25,571	We in the cellar have upped our standards, so ....up yours! __________________ This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality Embrace this moment, remember We are eternal, all this pain is an illusion ~MJKeenan

06-28-2010, 08:52 PM	#453
Urbane Guerrilla Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Southern California Posts: 6,674	Jinx, all I can say is you must raise yours. Plenty of room up here at my level, and it's really pretty nice. I'm blessed with enlightenment and intelligence. You could be. Doesn't worry me any. Part of my intellectual quality is in how I resist the silly and narrow shibboleths of Northeastern liberal opinion, which tends to mire itself in misperception. I get out of that verkrampte region; I've been around the world. (Professional New Yorkers seem to me provincial and rather Babbity.) I've seen the regrettable results of too much government, strongman government, and so on. What you see here is the result of that experience. Now since when have you manifested anything comparable? __________________ Wanna stop school shootings? End Gun-Free Zones, of course.

06-28-2010, 08:58 PM	#454
jinx Come on, cat. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: general vicinity of Philadelphia area Posts: 7,013	After 6 attempts over several years, in 2003 an appellate court upheld Fox New's first amendment right to report false information. __________________ Crying won't help you, praying won't do you no good.

06-29-2010, 01:23 AM	#455
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Hmmm Attached Images __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

06-29-2010, 07:44 AM	#457
Spexxvet Makes some feel uncomfortable Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 10,346	How would it be different if the same law was applied to illegal drugs or illegal handguns? "You look suspiciously like you have illegal drugs or an illegal handgun on your person. Prove that you don't." __________________ "I'm certainly free, nay compelled, to spread the gospel of Spex. " - xoxoxoBruce

06-29-2010, 10:55 AM	#465
TheMercenary “Hypocrisy: prejudice with a halo” Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Savannah, Georgia Posts: 21,393	I stand corrected, they can stop them to check for immigration status. I still don't see or have a problem with it. Here is the Bill that the majority of the Obama administration failed to even read before they commented on it's evilness. http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

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