The Service Industry in America - Page 2

HungLikeJesus · 06-12-2008, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by case

I read through some of her rants and thought they might be Cicero under a different name.

Case, you didn't even need to read that article. You've already got a perfect child.

freshnesschronic · 06-13-2008, 03:01 AM

Hmmmmm intriguing!

As a service industry worker for 5 years, I'd have to say...international service is 10x better than anything i've experienced in the States. Recently, I was just on that Cozumel cruise and the crew service staff was mostly international, from Europe, Asia and Latin America and I have to say it was VASTLY superior to any sort of service I've received in the states.

But I guess that's not the service industry in America...shit.

TheMercenary · 06-13-2008, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freshnesschronic

Hmmmmm intriguing!

As a service industry worker for 5 years, I'd have to say...international service is 10x better than anything i've experienced in the States. Recently, I was just on that Cozumel cruise and the crew service staff was mostly international, from Europe, Asia and Latin America and I have to say it was VASTLY superior to any sort of service I've received in the states.

But I guess that's not the service industry in America...shit.

Well there is good and bad everywhere you go. I did not feel that service was any better in the UK than in the US and we are expected to tip in the US. But if you eat in a 4 or 5 star rated place in any country the service is most likely to be much better. That has been my experience. Pay the workers better, the bill is higher, the tips are bigger as a percentage of the bill, the service is usually better.

Sundae · 06-13-2008, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

The system is designed so that YOU HAVE TO YELL AT PEOPLE or else nothing gets done EVER. The system is designed so that 99% of people will give up before getting what they rightfully deserve when the store is clearly at fault (and they don't even deny being at fault! they just say it's "not our policy" to fvcking do anything about it).

Well... I've never been to anywhere that is set up so that the customer has to be aggressive towards staff in order to resolve an issue.

However I have worked in many places where an obnoxious customer is eventually given something they are not entitled to, or is given special treatment at a Manager's discretion because it is not fair on the staff involved to make them deal with this person.

It's always saddened me when this happens, because the arsehole goes away with the impresion that they were right all along, and that all the staff have just been lying, creating obstacles and being difficult. It encourages this behaviour next time and ensures that the highest level of customer care goes to a customer you would be happy never to see again.

I'm sure the above doesn't apply to you of course Flint.

classicman · 06-13-2008, 09:03 AM

I, gulp, agree with Flint.

Flint · 06-13-2008, 09:10 AM

You tell me, SG. Tell me what I did "wrong" here:

I register at Target for our baby shower, and somebody buys me a rainforest jumperoo off my Target registry. Later, after we go into labor, have the baby, come home from the hospital, recover, and eventually unpack our baby shower gifts and start setting them up, we discover that our "new" rainforest jumperoo has VOMIT STAINS ALL OVER IT. This item was purchased by my mother-in-law, and I guarantee that she did not VOMIT ALL OVER IT before giving it to our baby.

So, we box it back up, pack the toddler and the new-born baby into the car and all head down to Target to exchange our "new" rainforest jumperoo for one that doesn't have VOMIT STAINS ALL OVER IT. We even log on to our gift registry and print a copy that show that this item was purchased at this store.

We arrive at the service desk with our item, our proof of purchase, and explain the situation. It is confirmed that the item had been PREVIOUSLY RETURNED to the store and put back on the shelf. It was re-packaged before it purchased as "new" -- this is the store's fault for not checking the item, NOT THE CUSTOMER'S FAULT FOR ASSUMING THAT A "NEW" ITEM WILL NOT BE COVERED IN VOMIT STAINS.

What was our "unreasonable" request? Simply to exchange this item, directly, for another identical item from the shelf. Not a used, re-packaged item, but a NEW non VOMIT-STAINED item.

The answer: IMMEDIATE AND TOTAL STONEWALL. ABSOLUTE REFUSAL TO REMEDY THE SITUATION.

The reason: Nobody denies wrongdoing on the store's behalf, nobody denies that the item was purchased here (we have proof), nobody denies that the item was re-shelved with VOMIT STAINS on it. The reason that our situation can't be remedied is "Corporate Policy" regarding returns.

Neither of the service desk girls can do anything, but they won't get their manager until we throw a fit. The service desk manager can't do anything, but she won't get the store manager until we throw a fit. Ths store manager can't do anything, but he won't call corporate until we throw a fit. The corporate heldesk can't do anything, but they won't get their manager until we throw a fit. The corporate helpdesk manager won't do anything until we throw ONE final fit, and then, AS IF BY MAGIC, she can IMMEDIATELY and EASILY remedy the situation.

I packed my whole family in the car with this big, bulky, defective item, and came down here simply wanting an exchange. Nobody denies that the store is at fault, but nobody can do anything about it. Well, I'M NOT LEAVING UNTIL THIS GETS REMEDIED. PERIOD. YOU ARE AT FAULT AND I DON'T CARE WHAT YOUR INTERNAL POLICIES ARE; THAT'S NOT MY PROBLEM. THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM. THE ONLY THING YOU NEED TO DO IS FIX THIS SITUATION, BECAUSE I'M NOT LEAVING. I WILL STAY HERE ALL DAY UNTIL YOU FIX THIS.

Now WHY oh WHY do I have to tell that to five different people for an hour-and-a-half before ANYTHING GETS DONE ABOUT IT?

The short answer is, I don't give a shit! Because I'M NOT LEAVING THIS STORE UNTIL THIS GETS FIXED. FIX IT NOW OR FIX IT AN HOUR FROM NOW, I WILL BE HERE THROWING A FIT UNTIL IT GETS FIXED. I DON'T WANT TO HEAR THAT YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. I DON'T CARE WHAT YOUR POLICY IS. FIX IT.

And, guess what? IT WAS EASY TO FIX, AFTER ALL. It would have been a whole HELL of a lot easier to just go ahead and do it as soon as I showed up.

And that makes ME the asshole? THEY WILL NOT FIX THE PROBLEM UNTIL YOU REPEATEDLY REPEATEDLY REPEATEDLY DEMAND, LOUDLY, ANGRILY, AND WITHOUT BACKING DOWN THAT YOU! WILL! FIX! THIS!

THEY MAKE YOU DO IT. The only alternative is NOT having your problem fixed. Not acceptable.

kerosene · 06-13-2008, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus

Case, you didn't even need to read that article. You've already got a perfect child.

Just because I have kids doesn't mean I don't get irritated at the way other people's kids behave.

HungLikeJesus · 06-13-2008, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

You tell me, SG. Tell me what I did "wrong" here:

I register at Target for our baby shower, ...

That's the problem.

Flint · 06-13-2008, 09:25 AM

Yes, but it's not MY problem. I don't write shitty policy for Target. That's TARGET'S problem. They wanted it to become my problem, by refusing to remedy the situation, but guess what? That's right: I'm not leaving until you fix this. And they did. EVENTUALLY.

I didn't want to yell at people all day, but if they refuse to do anything, and yelling is the only thing that pushes the process along (and it was--they'll stand there and blankly stare you in the face waiting for you to walk away, they'll simply say they can't do anything, they'll give you an 800 number that you can't call until Monday, they won't DO ANYTHING), then yelling is what they get.

The system is designed to discourage 99% of people with a total stonewall. YELLING is what breaks down that wall.

Sundae · 06-13-2008, 09:30 AM

How long was it between purchase and return?
In this country it is understood that you have a "reasonable time" to examine goods after purchase. If they prove to be damaged/ faulty after that then any returns/ refunds are at the store's discretion.

I wouldn't be surprised if store policy reflected the law in that the service desk have a policy to follow which sets out the store's definition of a "reasonable time". I appreciate you might not have the same laws there.

Over here, the law is there to protect consumers and retailers both. After all if stores have to constantly swallow losses for damaged goods then it's customers who pay in the end.

sweetwater · 06-13-2008, 09:37 AM

If I get very, very calm then it is time to get very, very scared. I ask for not one, but two people to listen, and I write down both names, ask if that is enough identification or if I need to get their employee ID's, and ask them to verify the date and time that I presented my complaint to them. I am very polite but I have shark eyes on. I ask for written proof of any policies. As long as I am convinced I am right (and vomit covered 'new' gifts would make me believe so) then I'm there. Oh, and after the problem is resolved, I often write it to the Big Offic to thank the one who fixed it but suggest they revise their practices.

Flint · 06-13-2008, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

How long was it between purchase and return?

I didn't purchase it. I have no idea when it was purchased, could have been any time within the last NINE MONTHS that we were pregnant with the baby that this registry was for.

Bottom line: it was purchased as a NEW item. NOT a USED item that was COVERED IN VOMIT STAINS. The store was at fault for re-shelving an item that should not have been re-shelved. PERIOD.

STORE IS AT FAULT. STORE WILL FIX. PERIOD.

Flint · 06-13-2008, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sweetwater

If I get very, very calm then it is time to get very, very scared. I ask for not one, but two people to listen, and I write down both names, ask if that is enough identification or if I need to get their employee ID's, and ask them to verify the date and time that I presented my complaint to them. I am very polite but I have shark eyes on. I ask for written proof of any policies. As long as I am convinced I am right (and vomit covered 'new' gifts would make me believe so) then I'm there. Oh, and after the problem is resolved, I often write it to the Big Offic to thank the one who fixed it but suggest they revise their practices.

Being calm didn't work. Taking names is of no interest to me because I don't want to "report" people, I just want my issue resolved. I don't care what your policies are because you ADMIT that you are at fault, and you WILL FIX THIS.

I don't go immediately into yelling; first I present the facts of the case, clearly. Having stated the facts, I give them an opportunity to do the right thing. If I have to, I make it absolutely clear what needs to be done. If I have to, I let them know that I will not settle for anything less than WHAT IS RIGHT.

IF, and only if, you have to be yelled at in order to get motivated, than YOU WILL GET YELLED AT. That is YOUR CHOICE.

Eventually the problem gets fixed. YOU introduced the necessity of yelling into the equation.

Clodfobble · 06-13-2008, 12:21 PM

Part of the problem is that with national chains, policies really are set at the top, and the local managers literally have no ability to make the "unallowable" return in the computer--and they can't just do it without entering it into the computer, because shrink is investigated, and they will assume an employee is stealing. Target in particular has cracked down on returns recently because they are getting scammed left and right. They should obviously let you talk to corporate immediately without having to yell, but they really can't do anything about it themselves without risking their jobs.

Flint · 06-13-2008, 12:39 PM

It's not like I'm so dense that I blame the employee for Corporate Policy, or expect them to be able to circumvent it. Once they tell me what the policy constraints are, I wish to be directed to someone who can override that policy.

BUT THEY DON'T DO THAT.

They stonewall me; and when pressed, pass me on to another person so that THAT person can tell me that they can't do anything. I KNOW YOU CAN DO SOMETHING. When pressed, THAT person passes me on to ANOTHER person who ALSO CAN'T do anything.

You're wasting your time! I'M NOT LEAVING!

Each person tries to END the process, without my issue being resolved. They are ACTIVELY PREVENTING ME from getting access to somebody who CAN fix the problem. I'm certain that this is what they are directed to do. As the customer, I have to deal with a SERIES of human beings in order to navigate the policy. Each one of these people is DEDICATED to seeing my problem NOT GET FIXED.

Each person in this series POINT BLANK REFUSES to escalate my issue UNTIL FORCED TO DO SO. I am put in the situation of applying that force. The AMOUNT of force needed is beyond my control. JUST PASS ME THROUGH!

Telling me that you "can't do anything" will NOT "get rid of" me. It WILL get you YELLED AT.

06-13-2008, 09:03 AM	#20
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	I, gulp, agree with Flint. __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

06-13-2008, 09:10 AM	#21
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	You tell me, SG. Tell me what I did "wrong" here: I register at Target for our baby shower, and somebody buys me a rainforest jumperoo off my Target registry. Later, after we go into labor, have the baby, come home from the hospital, recover, and eventually unpack our baby shower gifts and start setting them up, we discover that our "new" rainforest jumperoo has VOMIT STAINS ALL OVER IT. This item was purchased by my mother-in-law, and I guarantee that she did not VOMIT ALL OVER IT before giving it to our baby. So, we box it back up, pack the toddler and the new-born baby into the car and all head down to Target to exchange our "new" rainforest jumperoo for one that doesn't have VOMIT STAINS ALL OVER IT. We even log on to our gift registry and print a copy that show that this item was purchased at this store. We arrive at the service desk with our item, our proof of purchase, and explain the situation. It is confirmed that the item had been PREVIOUSLY RETURNED to the store and put back on the shelf. It was re-packaged before it purchased as "new" -- this is the store's fault for not checking the item, NOT THE CUSTOMER'S FAULT FOR ASSUMING THAT A "NEW" ITEM WILL NOT BE COVERED IN VOMIT STAINS. What was our "unreasonable" request? Simply to exchange this item, directly, for another identical item from the shelf. Not a used, re-packaged item, but a NEW non VOMIT-STAINED item. The answer: IMMEDIATE AND TOTAL STONEWALL. ABSOLUTE REFUSAL TO REMEDY THE SITUATION. The reason: Nobody denies wrongdoing on the store's behalf, nobody denies that the item was purchased here (we have proof), nobody denies that the item was re-shelved with VOMIT STAINS on it. The reason that our situation can't be remedied is "Corporate Policy" regarding returns. Neither of the service desk girls can do anything, but they won't get their manager until we throw a fit. The service desk manager can't do anything, but she won't get the store manager until we throw a fit. Ths store manager can't do anything, but he won't call corporate until we throw a fit. The corporate heldesk can't do anything, but they won't get their manager until we throw a fit. The corporate helpdesk manager won't do anything until we throw ONE final fit, and then, AS IF BY MAGIC, she can IMMEDIATELY and EASILY remedy the situation. I packed my whole family in the car with this big, bulky, defective item, and came down here simply wanting an exchange. Nobody denies that the store is at fault, but nobody can do anything about it. Well, I'M NOT LEAVING UNTIL THIS GETS REMEDIED. PERIOD. YOU ARE AT FAULT AND I DON'T CARE WHAT YOUR INTERNAL POLICIES ARE; THAT'S NOT MY PROBLEM. THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM. THE ONLY THING YOU NEED TO DO IS FIX THIS SITUATION, BECAUSE I'M NOT LEAVING. I WILL STAY HERE ALL DAY UNTIL YOU FIX THIS. Now WHY oh WHY do I have to tell that to five different people for an hour-and-a-half before ANYTHING GETS DONE ABOUT IT? The short answer is, I don't give a shit! Because I'M NOT LEAVING THIS STORE UNTIL THIS GETS FIXED. FIX IT NOW OR FIX IT AN HOUR FROM NOW, I WILL BE HERE THROWING A FIT UNTIL IT GETS FIXED. I DON'T WANT TO HEAR THAT YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. I DON'T CARE WHAT YOUR POLICY IS. FIX IT. And, guess what? IT WAS EASY TO FIX, AFTER ALL. It would have been a whole HELL of a lot easier to just go ahead and do it as soon as I showed up. And that makes ME the asshole? THEY WILL NOT FIX THE PROBLEM UNTIL YOU REPEATEDLY REPEATEDLY REPEATEDLY DEMAND, LOUDLY, ANGRILY, AND WITHOUT BACKING DOWN THAT YOU! WILL! FIX! THIS! THEY MAKE YOU DO IT. The only alternative is NOT having your problem fixed. Not acceptable. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio** Last edited by Flint; 06-13-2008 at 09:22 AM.

06-13-2008, 09:25 AM	#24
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	Yes, but it's not MY problem. I don't write shitty policy for Target. That's TARGET'S problem. They wanted it to become my problem, by refusing to remedy the situation, but guess what? That's right: I'm not leaving until you fix this. And they did. EVENTUALLY. I didn't want to yell at people all day, but if they refuse to do anything, and yelling is the only thing that pushes the process along (and it was--they'll stand there and blankly stare you in the face waiting for you to walk away, they'll simply say they can't do anything, they'll give you an 800 number that you can't call until Monday, they won't DO ANYTHING), then yelling is what they get. The system is designed to discourage 99% of people with a total stonewall. YELLING is what breaks down that wall. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio** Last edited by Flint; 06-13-2008 at 09:34 AM.

06-13-2008, 09:30 AM	#25
Sundae polaroid of perfection Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 24,185	How long was it between purchase and return? In this country it is understood that you have a "reasonable time" to examine goods after purchase. If they prove to be damaged/ faulty after that then any returns/ refunds are at the store's discretion. I wouldn't be surprised if store policy reflected the law in that the service desk have a policy to follow which sets out the store's definition of a "reasonable time". I appreciate you might not have the same laws there. Over here, the law is there to protect consumers and retailers both. After all if stores have to constantly swallow losses for damaged goods then it's customers who pay in the end. __________________ Life's hard you know, so strike a pose on a Cadillac

06-13-2008, 09:37 AM	#26
sweetwater lives inside a Mobius strip Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,120	If I get very, very calm then it is time to get very, very scared. I ask for not one, but two people to listen, and I write down both names, ask if that is enough identification or if I need to get their employee ID's, and ask them to verify the date and time that I presented my complaint to them. I am very polite but I have shark eyes on. I ask for written proof of any policies. As long as I am convinced I am right (and vomit covered 'new' gifts would make me believe so) then I'm there. Oh, and after the problem is resolved, I often write it to the Big Offic to thank the one who fixed it but suggest they revise their practices. __________________ I knew I shoulda taken that left turn at Albuquerque! - Bugs Bunny

06-13-2008, 03:01 AM	#17
freshnesschronic Professor Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 1,555	Hmmmmm intriguing! As a service industry worker for 5 years, I'd have to say...international service is 10x better than anything i've experienced in the States. Recently, I was just on that Cozumel cruise and the crew service staff was mostly international, from Europe, Asia and Latin America and I have to say it was VASTLY superior to any sort of service I've received in the states. But I guess that's not the service industry in America...shit.

06-13-2008, 12:21 PM	#29
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	Part of the problem is that with national chains, policies really are set at the top, and the local managers literally have no ability to make the "unallowable" return in the computer--and they can't just do it without entering it into the computer, because shrink is investigated, and they will assume an employee is stealing. Target in particular has cracked down on returns recently because they are getting scammed left and right. They should obviously let you talk to corporate immediately without having to yell, but they really can't do anything about it themselves without risking their jobs.

06-13-2008, 12:39 PM	#30
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	It's not like I'm so dense that I blame the employee for Corporate Policy, or expect them to be able to circumvent it. Once they tell me what the policy constraints are, I wish to be directed to someone who can override that policy. BUT THEY DON'T DO THAT. They stonewall me; and when pressed, pass me on to another person so that THAT person can tell me that they can't do anything. I KNOW YOU CAN DO SOMETHING. When pressed, THAT person passes me on to ANOTHER person who ALSO CAN'T do anything. You're wasting your time! I'M NOT LEAVING! Each person tries to END the process, without my issue being resolved. They are ACTIVELY PREVENTING ME from getting access to somebody who CAN fix the problem. I'm certain that this is what they are directed to do. As the customer, I have to deal with a SERIES of human beings in order to navigate the policy. Each one of these people is DEDICATED to seeing my problem NOT GET FIXED. Each person in this series POINT BLANK REFUSES to escalate my issue UNTIL FORCED TO DO SO. I am put in the situation of applying that force. The AMOUNT of force needed is beyond my control. JUST PASS ME THROUGH! Telling me that you "can't do anything" will NOT "get rid of" me. It WILL get you YELLED AT. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

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