The proper role and scope of government

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

... Obtaining the "proper" or "valid" pictured ID can be difficult and/or time critical.

Difficult, not impossible. This is not a race issue although that seems to be the flavor of the season when ever someone disagrees with the Demoncratic party or the president.

[Lamplighter]

The problem is complexity...especially for the elderly, the poor, the minorities, etc.

As you point out, it's not a race issue... it is Civil Rights being abused by Repubicans.
Race is just one of the elephants in the room.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Difficult, not impossible. This is not a race issue although that seems to be the flavor of the season when ever someone disagrees with the Demoncratic party or the president.

It is the same shit that is going on in Wisconsin right now. Dirty politics.

Unless Republicans can show that requiring a photo ID like a driver's license instead of the current system will lower voter fraud, I honestly see no other point of it besides preventing people who will statistically more likely vote Democrat from voting.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I have to show my ID to vote, to get on an Airplane, often to use my credit or debit card, to get on to post, to buy at the PX, to cash a check, to by a beer or liquor, to the police if I get stopped, to get on a cruise ship, to go into another country, hell where do you not have to show one. And these mother fuckers are worried about showing one to vote. What load of horse shit.......

None of those are deemed citizen privileges. Being able to vote is right in the US. Flying, using credit, buying liquor, going to different countries, etc, are not.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

None of those are deemed citizen privileges.
Being able to vote is right in the US. Flying, using credit, buying liquor, going to different countries, etc, are not.

I agree, voting is far more important than any of those other things.
If it weren't for the political BS that started this, I would agree wholeheartedly with one
having to provide a picture ID to vote. The system should be more secure.
Perhaps we could agree to do it in the future - say as of the 2016 election.

As far as how hard it is to get a picture ID. I call MAJOR BS.
Getting a passport is supposedly much harder. I had to accrue my original Birth Certificate
(which I apparently never had) as well as a couple other things.
Sent it away and got the passport in a few weeks. It was a completely painless process.

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by classicman

<snip>
As far as how hard it is to get a picture ID. I call MAJOR BS.
Getting a passport is supposedly much harder. I had to accrue my original Birth Certificate
(which I apparently never had) as well as a couple other things.
Sent it away and got the passport in a few weeks. It was a completely painless process.

That is what some of these voter laws are calling for now...
ID's that are the equivalent of a US passport.
Painless maybe, but overly complicated and time consuming

Will everyone know they had to do all that in order to vote,
and will everyone have started the process in time to vote ?
Not likely, and that's what the Republican legislatures are counting on.

[kerosene]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

That is what some of these voter laws are calling for now...
ID's that are the equivalent of a US passport.
Painless maybe, but overly complicated and time consuming

Will everyone know they had to do all that in order to vote,
and will everyone have started the process in time to vote ?
Not likely, and that's what the Republican legislatures are counting on.

What indication is there that getting necessary paperwork is more difficult for a Democrat than a Republican?

How does this necessitate the big "racism" elephant in the room?

I am not seeing the connection here.

[Stormieweather]

I would guess that the reason this law is suggested to benefit Republicans is that minorities and the poor are less likely to have photo ID's and are more likely to vote Democratic.

Why?

Photo ID's can be costly, time consuming, and sometimes difficult to obtain. Even more so for women.

For example, I cannot renew my driver's license unless I can obtain a copy of my marriage certificate from 30 years ago. I don't even remember where I got married, we did it spur of the moment while on a road trip. The originals are long lost during around-the-world moves. He and I divorced decades ago, but I have to recreate a document trail. So let's assume I know right where to get it, the cost is usually $20 or so for a copy. Then I have to get a copy of the divorce decree as well (but at least I know where to find that one). That's another $20. A certified copy of my birth certificate is $50. There you have $90...and for what? I need a driver's license, but what about grandma? Or an unemployed person who lost their home? Or a student who has recently moved? Are they going to go through the expense and time and effort just to VOTE?

[Lamplighter]

The NY Times today has a 4-page article about a man who investigated Fannie Mae
on his own and found abuses and illegal procedures long before the housing crisis.

There is a lot of repetition in the article, but the gist seems to be that
"mortage servicing companies" were playing lose and fast (an illegally) with their duties and responsibilities.
Investigations by this man and others were given to Fannie Mae, but it is unclear
that the contents of the reports made their way up to the Board of Directors.

It's an interesting read...

NY Times
GRETCHEN MORGENSON
February 4, 2012
A Mortgage Tornado Warning, Unheeded

YEARS before the housing bust — before all those home loans turned sour
and millions of Americans faced foreclosure — a wealthy businessman in Florida set out
to blow the whistle on the mortgage game.

His name is Nye Lavalle, and he first came to attention not in finance but in sports and advertising.
He turned heads in marketing circles by correctly predicting that Nascar and figure skating
would draw huge followings in the 1990s.
But after losing a family home to foreclosure, under what he thought were fishy circumstances,
Mr. Lavalle, founder of a consulting firm called the Sports Marketing Group,
began a new life as a mortgage sleuth. In 2003, when home prices were flying high,
he compiled a dossier of improprieties on one of the giants of the business, Fannie Mae.

In hindsight, what he found looks like a blueprint of today’s foreclosure crisis. Even then, Mr. Lavalle discovered,
some loan-servicing companies that worked for Fannie Mae routinely filed false foreclosure documents,
not unlike the fraudulent paperwork that has since made “robo-signing” a household term.
Even then, he found, the nation’s electronic mortgage registry was playing fast and loose with the law
— something that courts have belatedly recognized, too
<snip>

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

That is what some of these voter laws are calling for now...
ID's that are the equivalent of a US passport.
Painless maybe, but overly complicated and time consuming

Will everyone have started the process in time to vote ?

Originally Posted by classicman

If it weren't for the political BS that started this, I would agree wholeheartedly with one
having to provide a picture ID to vote.
Perhaps we could agree to do it in the future - say as of the 2016 election.

Sent it away and got the passport in a few weeks. It was a completely painless process.