The proper role and scope of government

[TheMercenary]

Well I don't see a problem with it.

I have to show my ID to vote, to get on an Airplane, often to use my credit or debit card, to get on to post, to buy at the PX, to cash a check, to by a beer or liquor, to the police if I get stopped, to get on a cruise ship, to go into another country, hell where do you not have to show one. And these mother fuckers are worried about showing one to vote. What load of horse shit.......

[Lamplighter]

Merc, not everyone carries their military-issued ID in their pocket the way you do.
... Obtaining the "proper" or "valid" pictured ID can be difficult and/or time critical.

To get the proper state-issued, photo ID now,
with all the hoopla required by Homeland Security it can be / is very difficult.
The problem is complexity...especially for the elderly, the poor, the minorities, etc.

Some of the issues I have heard about are:

Hospital-issued "birth certificates" are no longer valid or accepted

... to be valid, the birth certificate must be issued by the State Dept of Vital Statistics (or whatever)

... if a woman is divorced, she must also show the state-issued divorce papers, and proper name-change legal papers

... if any birth date, name, etc are not the same on all papers, it can derail the process.

... if any of the above occurred in separate states, it can be difficult

... In Oregon, and I'll bet it is or will be the same in other states,
in order to get a new Driver's license, not only do you have to show all of the above,
you also have to paperwork to show you are legally entitled to live in the US,
and that you do actually live at a particular address in Oregon (utility bill, rent payment receipt, etc.)

Then, a person often also has to register to vote, and in some state this is required prior to the day of voting.

"Voter fraud" is almost non-existant, but it is the excuse for these new laws.

Basically, the Republican Party knows it is a minority party,
and so sets about to disqualify poor and/or minority voters,
or to make the process so difficult they don't vote.
.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

... Obtaining the "proper" or "valid" pictured ID can be difficult and/or time critical.

Difficult, not impossible. This is not a race issue although that seems to be the flavor of the season when ever someone disagrees with the Demoncratic party or the president.

[Lamplighter]

The problem is complexity...especially for the elderly, the poor, the minorities, etc.

As you point out, it's not a race issue... it is Civil Rights being abused by Repubicans.
Race is just one of the elephants in the room.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Difficult, not impossible. This is not a race issue although that seems to be the flavor of the season when ever someone disagrees with the Demoncratic party or the president.

It is the same shit that is going on in Wisconsin right now. Dirty politics.

Unless Republicans can show that requiring a photo ID like a driver's license instead of the current system will lower voter fraud, I honestly see no other point of it besides preventing people who will statistically more likely vote Democrat from voting.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I have to show my ID to vote, to get on an Airplane, often to use my credit or debit card, to get on to post, to buy at the PX, to cash a check, to by a beer or liquor, to the police if I get stopped, to get on a cruise ship, to go into another country, hell where do you not have to show one. And these mother fuckers are worried about showing one to vote. What load of horse shit.......

None of those are deemed citizen privileges. Being able to vote is right in the US. Flying, using credit, buying liquor, going to different countries, etc, are not.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

None of those are deemed citizen privileges.
Being able to vote is right in the US. Flying, using credit, buying liquor, going to different countries, etc, are not.

I agree, voting is far more important than any of those other things.
If it weren't for the political BS that started this, I would agree wholeheartedly with one
having to provide a picture ID to vote. The system should be more secure.
Perhaps we could agree to do it in the future - say as of the 2016 election.

As far as how hard it is to get a picture ID. I call MAJOR BS.
Getting a passport is supposedly much harder. I had to accrue my original Birth Certificate
(which I apparently never had) as well as a couple other things.
Sent it away and got the passport in a few weeks. It was a completely painless process.

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by classicman

<snip>
As far as how hard it is to get a picture ID. I call MAJOR BS.
Getting a passport is supposedly much harder. I had to accrue my original Birth Certificate
(which I apparently never had) as well as a couple other things.
Sent it away and got the passport in a few weeks. It was a completely painless process.

That is what some of these voter laws are calling for now...
ID's that are the equivalent of a US passport.
Painless maybe, but overly complicated and time consuming

Will everyone know they had to do all that in order to vote,
and will everyone have started the process in time to vote ?
Not likely, and that's what the Republican legislatures are counting on.

[kerosene]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

That is what some of these voter laws are calling for now...
ID's that are the equivalent of a US passport.
Painless maybe, but overly complicated and time consuming

Will everyone know they had to do all that in order to vote,
and will everyone have started the process in time to vote ?
Not likely, and that's what the Republican legislatures are counting on.

What indication is there that getting necessary paperwork is more difficult for a Democrat than a Republican?

How does this necessitate the big "racism" elephant in the room?

I am not seeing the connection here.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

That is what some of these voter laws are calling for now...
ID's that are the equivalent of a US passport.
Painless maybe, but overly complicated and time consuming

Will everyone have started the process in time to vote ?

Originally Posted by classicman

If it weren't for the political BS that started this, I would agree wholeheartedly with one
having to provide a picture ID to vote.
Perhaps we could agree to do it in the future - say as of the 2016 election.

Sent it away and got the passport in a few weeks. It was a completely painless process.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

"Voter fraud" is almost non-existant, ...

except where it is hyped as a major crime wave to advance a political agenda. If voter fraud was serious, then he has posted numbers that prove it. He won't. Political agendas are promoted by subjective claims. Such claims without numbers are best called lies.

Of course, we could eliminate 100% voter fraud. It's easy. We all learn to goose step. And we all salute the flag with one arm raised straight up above.

Voter fraud is a crime sufficiently eliminated by following the existing and well proven procedures. But that does not promote bogeymen to inspire and rally extremists.

Actual problem is not voter fraud. The real problem is identity theft. Solving the latter does not create fear and promote a political agenda.

[regular.joe]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Well I don't see a problem with it.

I have to show my ID to vote, to get on an Airplane, often to use my credit or debit card, to get on to post, to buy at the PX, to cash a check, to by a beer or liquor, to the police if I get stopped, to get on a cruise ship, to go into another country, hell where do you not have to show one. And these mother fuckers are worried about showing one to vote. What load of horse shit.......

Merc, it would be a load of shit if that were the only thing going on. Republicans are trying to use this as a method of evening the vote in areas where there are more Dem voters. That's really not democracy in action. sure I can understand people wanting to "win", but hey, if you don't like the outcome of the voters then..well, wait till the next election. Don't try to figure out ways to exclude voters.