Obama Announces Re-election Bid

[BigV]

Hey mercy

Do you understand that the Federal Reserve doesn't work for "Obamy"? He doesn't permit or prohibit any of the actions of the Federal Reserve.

It's true, they both have the best interest of the country at heart, so, often their interests and actions are aligned.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Can't agree with it all but there are some really good points here....

http://www.thedemocrat.com/site/news...&PAG=461&rfi=9

Originally Posted by Fair&Balanced

What the above column does not mention is that the tax only applies to higher income taxpayers.

--missing--

added:
From the text of the law on the Unearned Income Medicare Contribution:

--missing--

Dont you think the column is misleading, or more to the point, factually incorrect, by saying that it "covers all income levels" (it does not) and not mentioning the income threshold?

Hey mercy--

which of these three sources is the most credible with respect to facts about the Affordable Care Act? If you please, I'd also like to know why you prefer the one you choose.

number one: http://www.thedemocrat.com/site/news...&PAG=461&rfi=9

number two: http://research.lawyers.com/blogs/ar...ed-Income.html

number three: http://www.healthcare.gov/center/aut...ntribution.pdf

[TheMercenary]

All of them are biased to some degree. Everyone should read as much as they can and make their own decisions based on the information they can gather. IMHO Obamy Rhamed through a program that favored the insurance companies.

[Uday]

Originally Posted by Big Sarge

I'm glad he pulled us out Iraq. But wait, we have 50,000 troops still there with units scheduled from MS to re-deploy there this fall. At least he kept his promise of closing Gitmo, right?

America will never close Gitmo. The moral strength that prevented places like Gitmo is gone.

[TheMercenary]

The sooner we close Gitmo the better. Send every swinging dick back to the country where they were captured. Carry on.....

[Fair&Balanced]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

All of them are biased to some degree. Everyone should read as much as they can and make their own decisions based on the information they can gather. IMHO Obamy Rhamed through a program that favored the insurance companies.

How is the specific wording of the law, as it relates to the Unearned Income Medicare Contributions Tax, biased? Please explain.

Your subjective opinion of the overall law is one thing.

An opinion column that states that the Unearned Income Medicare Contributions Tax "covers all income levels" is a misstatement of fact.

[BigV]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

All of them are biased to some degree. Everyone should read as much as they can and make their own decisions based on the information they can gather. IMHO Obamy Rhamed through a program that favored the insurance companies.

Man, tha's a cop out and you know it. Certainly everything written by man can be variously interpreted by man. For cryin out loud, we had a fucking MATH problem carry on for fifty pages last week. I'm not asking are they biased or not. I'm asking you which one you consider the best source for facts about the law.

I'll go first, you might or might not follow. I consider the .gov site the most reliable source of the three listed as the best source for facts about the law. The others is are opinion pieces about the law, emphasis on opinion.

[Jill]

Originally Posted by infinite monkey

2008 gas prices?

The reason gas prices of $4.00+ a gallon in 2011 feel so painful, is because wealth disparity has been widening exponentially over the past several decades, where the rich are getting filthy rich and the poor and middle class have seen their incomes stagnate or even be lowered. Incomes aren't keeping pace with inflation, so even though today's gas prices are on par with 1970s gas prices in equivalent dollar value, the middle class don't have as many dollars to spend.

When I started driving in 1977, gas was between $0.35 and $0.45 a gallon. When gas rose to over $1 a gallon in the 90s, no one complained because everyone could afford it. Look at the chart on this site. Note that gas prices didn't start exploding until we started 2 wars in the largest oil-producing region in the world. And so it continues now with Libya, not to mention all the political unrest in several countries throughout the region.

Now look at the graph showing wealth disparity here, and scroll through the next 15 screens. This one is the most sickening.

If it doesn't blow your mind and/or piss you off, you have no concern about the future of this nation.

Guns, abortion, homosexuality -- those are all nothing more than distractions from the real problem this country faces, and that's ensuring that we have a strong and solid middle and working class. The more the wealthy Republicans fight to strip workers of their piddly benefits by comparison to what they're raking in, the more people will be forced into reliance on Government programs. The more people relying on Government programs, the more the Republicans fight to eliminate those programs as too costly. The only place this can lead us is into Third World status, as poverty rises and the government leaves people to fend for themselves on the streets. Don't tell me it can't happen. It's happening right now!

It's an ugly, vicious attack on the very people who have literally built this nation with their blood, sweat and tears. Real Average Earnings have not increased in 50 YEARS! But the best compensated 400 Americans earned on average, $345 MILLION per year!

Republican tax cuts have SIGNIFICANTLY increased the wealth gap.

And it should be no surprise that income inequality is worst in the areas around Wall Street and oil producing states.

This path is unsustainable. Cutting and gutting government services is a make-believe "solution" that will actually only make the problem worse, leading to increased poverty, more unwanted babies whose mothers cannot afford to feed them and nowhere to go to find food or shelter. Private charities could never hope to raise the kinds of funds needed to take care of the volumes of indigent families that will need these services, mostly because there'll be far fewer people with enough disposable income to give.

We need someone in the White House with some common sense on this issue. I'm deeply disappointed that President Obama has fallen prey to the machinations of the Republicans, who have been guiding the narrative in the wrong direction. If we want to stop the bleeding, we need to participate in our government by calling and writing our Representatives and making it clear that we want them and the President to stop being dragged around by the nose and to start exposing the destructive path Republicans are taking us down.

I don't give a shit about guns. Keep all you want. Shoot all the Bambis you want. I don't care if you hate gays, just don't expect our laws to enshrine your personal hatred in it. I don't care if you want to teach and preach abstinence and "the right to life" (even if I find it grossly hypocritical), just don't elevate it to the level of distraction from what's really endangering this country in the here and now.

We have to get real, people!

(Whew! How's that for a first post following my long hiatus? )

[BigV]

come on, don't be shy. You're among friends.

tell us how you *really* feel.

[infinite monkey]

I love it jill!

Wow..."insuring that we have a strong working and middle class" and "this path is unsustainable."

So what I've said and thought for so long.

It makes me sick that robots don't see this to be true.

I don't even think I love my country anymore. It's just a bad relationship, abused by the more powerful and expected to love it because I "love my country." While the powerful sip congnac and do whatever the hell they want.

It's NOT sustainable, and I really don't even want to be a part of it anymore.

Hallelujah troops and all that aside. You've been snowed.

As to this:

If it doesn't blow your mind and/or piss you off, you have no concern about the future of this nation.

Many are way more concerned about being "correct." Bring on the breadlines and the starvation, just so they can stand with some sort of "I told you so" that they won't even remember ever actually telling us.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to jump off the Brooklyn Bridge.

Welcome back jill.

[Jill]

Originally Posted by BigV

come on, don't be shy. You're among friends.

tell us how you *really* feel.

One thing I've never been accused of is being shy.

Originally Posted by infinite monkey

I love it jill!

Wow..."insuring that we have a strong working and middle class" and "this path is unsustainable."

So what I've said and thought for so long.

It makes me sick that robots don't see this to be true.

I don't even think I love my country anymore. It's just a bad relationship, abused by the more powerful and expected to love it because I "love my country." While the powerful sip congnac and do whatever the hell they want.

It's NOT sustainable, and I really don't even want to be a part of it anymore.

Hallelujah troops and all that aside. You've been snowed.

As to this:



Many are way more concerned about being "correct." Bring on the breadlines and the starvation, just so they can stand with some sort of "I told you so" that they won't even remember ever actually telling us.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to jump off the Brooklyn Bridge.

Welcome back jill.

Don't jump! Don't jump! Call your Senators instead! Make them want to jump -- through hoops, to get us what we demand!!

Thanks for the welcome and the nice reply, infinite monkey.

[Fair&Balanced]

Jill:

I agree with much of what you say, particularly the growing income disparity and the lost decade (2001-2010) for the middle class resulting in large part from a shift in policies that made it more advantageous for the wealthy to be able to acquire more wealth by producing nothing rather than focusing on innovation and productivity.

And I agree that the current slash and burn mentality of many of the proposed spending cuts will lead to even greater income disparity and the further stagnation of the middle class as well as limiting the US ability to retool the economy in a way that will restore US competitiveness.

But we do need to address the debt. It is unsustainable and will continue to be a drag on any economic growth and/or prosperity for the middle class. And it will require shared sacrifices, including some programs that may be hard to let go.

The problem is building consensus in an atmosphere of extremism. I dont have the answer of how to achieve that.

[Jill]

Originally Posted by Fair&Balanced

Jill:

I agree with much of what you say, particularly the growing income disparity and the lost decade (2001-2010) for the middle class resulting in large part from a shift in policies that made it more advantageous for the wealthy to be able to acquire more wealth by producing nothing rather than focusing on innovation and productivity.

And I agree that the current slash and burn mentality of many of the proposed spending cuts will lead to even greater income disparity and the further stagnation of the middle class as well as limiting the US ability to retool the economy in a way that will restore US competitiveness.

But we do need to address the debt. It is unsustainable and will continue to be a drag on any economic growth and/or prosperity for the middle class. And it will require shared sacrifices, including some programs that may be hard to let go.

The problem is building consensus in an atmosphere of extremism. I dont have the answer of how to achieve that.

The best way to address the debt is to reinstate PAYGO -- and this time, mean it. No more of these freaking loopholes that allow bullshit like the Bush/Republican tax cuts, which didn't have to be paid for because they were only "temporary" and set to expire in 10 years -- the outside window for being allowed to be left out of the budget.

Oh, but wait, they didn't really mean it. Now they'll hold the country hostage unless they're extended 2 more years. Oh yeah, and still NOT PAID FOR.

And Medicare Part D? NOT PAID FOR! (And don't even get me started on how the Bush Administration intentionally lied to Congress about its true cost in order to get it passed.)

And the Afghanistan and Iraq wars? NOT PAID FOR!

Close your eyes and picture a single raindrop falling into the Atlantic Ocean. That's what "defunding" Planned Parenthood and NPR would be like. Pensions for government employees? chump change.

We cannot -- simply can NOT -- keep spending money without raising taxes to pay for the spending. Can't. It's just the most absurd notion on the face of this earth. And even more absurd to think we'll solve the debt problem by slashing what is usually primary medical care for poor women (and men, too, btw), which amounts to a measly $375 million a year, while raising the limit on tax exempt gifts from $1 MILLION to freaking $FIVE MILLION for individuals, and handing out $4 BILLION in subsidies to the single most profitable business on the planet; oil companies!

Those 400 top wage-earners I mentioned above? They netted an approximate 17% federal tax rate. And it's being reduced even further! How in the hell are we supposed to make up all that lost revenue? If we added up every dime that's spent on public broadcasting, Planned Parenthood and every single other hated service Republicans want to defund, you might be able to fill a bucket of water from the Atlantic.

We need the wealthy in this country to start coughing up their fair share. And yes, their fair share is going to be more than what's considered fair for someone making $12,000 a year. They didn't get to be multi-millionaires and billionaires without the help of the $12,000 a year schmoes somewhere along the road. If they're going to make it on the backs of the poor, it's obnoxious beyond words to then want to take away even more from people who already have nothing.

The poor and middle class in this country have nothing more to give. This turnip has been wrung dry. Ain't no mo blood in it. The government can't squeeze anything else out of us without it ending up costing them even more money. For every $1 spent on providing poor women pap smears and breast exams, the government saves $4 in higher medical costs of treating uterine, cervical and breast cancers that would otherwise have gone undetected. Yes, that's right, Planned Parenthood actually creates a net savings for the government.

And don't let the Paul Ryans of the country fool you. They're about to hold the entire economic stability of this country at gunpoint over an issue that they already passed in Ryan's budget bill! Yup. The Ryan budget raises the debt ceiling every single year for the next 10 years. Every. Year. Built in. No new voting on it every year, it's just automatic.

But they want people to believe that raising the debt ceiling isn't the answer -- cutting spending is the answer, then spew a bunch of crap that'll save 5 cents for every hundred million they're going to hand over to their crony friends and corporations. They're lying to the American public. Stop buying it and start holding them accountable for the truth.

It's the only way we're going to be able to fix this mess.

[Fair&Balanced]

I dont dispute any of the above....until your conclusion.

PAYGO,if implemented fully and honestly, will prevent any future growth in the debt; it wont help pay down the current debt.

The Bush tax cuts for the top bracket are a significant contributing factor to both present and future debt and should be restored to pre-2001 levels.

The Bush Medicare Prescription Drug reform costs the taxpayers more than the Affordable Care Act ever will.

I'm all for getting out of Iraq immediately and finding the best way to transition out of Afghanistan asap.

Cuts to programs like Planned Parenthood, Head Start, education, workforce investment, etc. are ideological and counter-productive.

We should also eliminate corporate tax subsidies and corporate welfare to big oil, big agriculture, etc.

We should cut defense spending significantly.

We should raise the income base for FICA so that those making over $106K pay the same percentage as those under $106K.

We should reduce the rate paid to providers of Medicare Advantage.

All of the above would certainly prevent the debt from continuing to grow by $trillions/year and would even make a big dent in the current debt level.

We also need to continue to invest in education, health care, job training, transportation and infrastructure, alternative energy, r&d, etc all of which contribute to economic growth.

We cant continue to fund housing assistance programs at current levels that reward people (middle class) who made bad decisions in the past and/or programs that are ineffective.

AND we also need to make fiscally justifiable cuts to other non-defense discretionary spending and that means cutting some popular programs and eliminating others.

IMO, the choice is not between spending cuts or tax increases. It is a combination of both.

[Spexxvet]

Nasty, demeaning comment by lookout123, followed by a dogpile of flint, merc, ug, classic, et al, on Jill in 3.....2....1......