Life changing experiences, thought changing experiences

[Number 2 Pencil]

I must admit, I do have an urge to get on the soapbox, but at the same time, I know I can be wrong about what I believe, more than anything I am looking for more knowledge and experiences from others that I may understand myself better.

I used to frequent the Cellar before, and discuss philosophical topics (and argue about abortion far more than I care to remember). I remember the Cellar being a supporting bunch with many diverse points of view. In many ways, what I read here helped change me many years ago. The cellar definitely opened me to many different points of views (such as paganism). So I am here again now to talk about life the universe and everything once again.

To be honest I am in the closet about my changes with just about everyone, so I need an outlet to explore my new beliefs. My fiancee (a christian) and I have discussed my life changes and we have come to a point where we respect each other and do not try to change each others beliefs. I don't discuss religion with my parents or own relatives. My friends I just hang out with every so often and my new lack of faith has not been topic of conversation yet, though I do want to bring it up at some point. I think it would be difficult if my future in-laws knew I was not christian judging from comments they have made to me in the past. They live in another state so I don't see them much. I feel dishonest in a way by misrepresenting myself through inaction as being a christian with my in-laws, and I may one day have to tackle that fact with them.

Clodfobble, I think I have reached a point where I believe everyone is on their own journey, and everyone needs to discover for themselves where it takes them. That means I am not trying to convert or deconvert anyone from anything (though I may disagree or agree with some people more than others, as long as they are not hurting anyone else a person's beliefs are their own concern), but I do really want to know the experiences others have been through.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by Number 2 Pencil

My fiancee (a christian) and I have discussed my life changes and we have come to a point where we respect each other and do not try to change each others beliefs. ... I think it would be difficult if my future in-laws knew I was not christian judging from comments they have made to me in the past.

Sounds like she and her family are pretty serious about religion. This leads me to the question of future kids. Are you OK with your future kids being raised in a religion that you don't believe? If not, is she OK with her kids being raised outside of her religion? This is unfortunately a place where there isn't a lot of room for compromise.

How are you going to explain why you aren't going to church with them without undermining your wife's religion? You can't say that you've decided god's not real. That's like telling a little kid that Santa Claus isn't real. You have to go along with it. Or don't. There's no middle ground.

[Number 2 Pencil]

Originally Posted by glatt

You can't say that you've decided god's not real. That's like telling a little kid that Santa Claus isn't real. You have to go along with it. Or don't. There's no middle ground.

I really am avoiding the irrevocable act of telling them I am agnostic, and it would be a difficult thing. Eventually one of them will point blank ask me something I will have to either lie or answer truthfully, and while I want to be true to myself, I can easily see being alienated by several members of her family if I am truthful, and that would be quite painful. Again though, they are two states away and I visit them only a few times a year, but it would be an issue.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Excellent point, Glatt, major friction point between different Christian sects, even more so between different religions(including agnostics).

Originally Posted by Number 2 Pencil

... My friends I just hang out with every so often and my new lack of faith has not been topic of conversation yet, though I do want to bring it up at some point.

Why? Unless you're looking to convert/dissuade, or at least debate, there's no reason to. And what if you do debate it, and they convince you you're wrong, or even plant seeds of doubt? Do the old problems come back then? I think smug and happy would be a better choice.

That means I am not trying to convert or deconvert anyone from anything (though I may disagree or agree with some people more than others, as long as they are not hurting anyone else a person's beliefs are their own concern)...

Exactly, everyones relationship, or lack of, with God, is their own business. There's no reason to discuss it unless you're ambushed by Jehovah's Witnesses or Mormons. Even then, you can just throw shit at 'em.

Sorry you've had a rough time, but happy you were able to find something to blame it on that wasn't physically attached... that gets messy.

[Number 2 Pencil]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I think smug and happy would be a better choice.

Sorry you've had a rough time, but happy you were able to find something to blame it on that wasn't physically attached... that gets messy.

It is messy anyways, and I don't blame my issues completely on religion, it really was me, it was just that my strict religious beliefs were a contributing factor. (did I come across as smug?) Seeds of doubt I have plenty of already, the only way to explore issues is to talk about them. Sometimes I believe in a creating god, sometimes not so much- usually not so much. Religions on the other hand I tend to seriously doubt, some more than others, but nothing is ever certain.

The issue of kids would be a can of worms, though neither of us plan to have any and are taking precautions, but who knows for the future if one will come up. If one did my in-laws would become a bigger issue and it would probably come out that I am not a christian anymore. Some of them are strongly Baptist and it may cause some division. The manner to raise the child would be the bigger issue, and it would take a great deal of discussion and compromise on both our parts.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Number 2 Pencil

... (did I come across as smug?)...

No, quite the contrary. People that reach smug are always comfortable. They may not be right, but have no doubts.

[plthijinx]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

No, quite the contrary. People that reach smug are always comfortable. They may not be right, but have no doubts.

words spoken from a very wise man.