Students Kicked Off Campus for Wearing American Flag Tees

piercehawkeye45 · 05-07-2010, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I doubt that, the article didn't mention anything about the Mexicans protesting or even being offended. This is just the school administration flexing their muscles, in the name of politically correct.

Yes it did.

Quote:

But to many Mexican-American students at Live Oak, this was a big deal. They say they were offended by the five boys and others for wearing American colors on a Mexican holiday.

"I think they should apologize cause it is a Mexican Heritage Day," Annicia Nunez, a Live Oak High student, said. "We don't deserve to be get disrespected like that. We wouldn't do that on Fourth of July."

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercanry

So what? The action they did take was inappropriate. I hope the kids sue the school for kicking them off campus.

This is only the latest of political correctness gone wrong in the US..

Depends on the situation. We have no idea who these kids are or how they act. I am probably biased, but I have a feeling these kids are like the kids at my school who drove around with a Confederate flag on their car during Martin Luther King Day.....in Wisconsin.

If these kids just happened to wear a shirt or bandanna with the American flag on it, then the school should have handled it better.

If the kids wore it as a big fuck you to the Mexican American population, which I am assuming it was, then I completely agree with the school's decision. It isn't ideal, but putting myself in their place, I would rather force someone to change their shirt then deal with some race related fights, which I know happen at other places.

Flint · 05-07-2010, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Yes it did.

Depends on the situation. We have no idea who these kids are or how they act. I am probably biased, but I have a feeling these kids are like the kids at my school who drove around with a Confederate flag on their car during Martin Luther King Day.....in Wisconsin.

If these kids just happened to wear a shirt or bandanna with the American flag on it, then the school should have handled it better.

If the kids wore it as a big fuck you to the Mexican American population, which I am assuming it was, then I completely agree with the school's decision. It isn't ideal, but putting myself in their place, I would rather force someone to change their shirt then deal with some race related fights, which I know happen at other places.

Even when people are dicks, you can't take action against them unless they actually do something wrong. This is a cornerstone of a free, law-abiding society. Once you open things up to the vagaries of spur-of-the-moment "feelings" and opinions, you accept that next time they could be coming for YOU if they don't like your attitude about something. That's not America.

piercehawkeye45 · 05-07-2010, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

Even when people are dicks, you can't take action against them unless they actually do something wrong. This is a cornerstone of a free, law-abiding society. Once you open things up to the vagaries of spur-of-the-moment "feelings" and opinions, you accept that next time they could be coming for YOU if they don't like your attitude about something. That's not America.

This is where we disagree. I am not defending the school just because I disagree with the actions of those students. I am not offended by their actions just as I was not offended when students from my school drove around with a Confederate flag on their car during Martin Luther King Day. It is about preventing something bigger from happening.

I do know places where an act such of this would have resorted in violence and could have brought other students into this as well. There are stupid racist who will do something to "make a statement" and there are stupid people who will use violence to "shut them up". If school's can avoid those situations, within reason, then I agree with the avoidance strategy.

I don't know if this school is such a place. If it is not, then yes, it is a stretch of political correctness. If it is, then I back the school's decision to attempt to avoid violence from breaking out in their school.

Flint · 05-07-2010, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

...an act such of this...

Quick reality check: an "act such as this" refers to what?

piercehawkeye45 · 05-07-2010, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

Quick reality check: an "act such as this" refers to what?

How is that a reality check? I am fully aware how stupid it is to resort to violence if you are offended that someone wore an American flag during Cinco de Mayo or if someone wore a Mexican flag during the 4th of July. But, unfortunately, it happens.

As Classicman's post states, that decision was about safety, not about political correctness. Obviously it could still be an overreaction from the school district, but my gut feeling says it is not.

Once again, we don't anything about these students besides that they wear American flags on their clothes every once in a while. They could be legitimate patriotic people, or they could full out white supremacist. We don't know. But from my personal experience, the only people that would think about wearing an American flag during Cinco de Mayo, in a school with a large Hispanic population, then get all defensive about it, are more towards the racist side.

classicman · 05-07-2010, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

As Classicman's post states, that decision was about safety, not about political correctness. Obviously it could still be an overreaction from the school district, but my gut feeling says it is not.

I don't believe that at all. This has PC written all over it and its bullshit.

Quote:

we don't anything about these students besides that they wear American flags on their clothes every once in a while.

And we don't know anything about the other kids, except they are "Mexican Americans." Are they into human trafficing. prostitution, drugs gun running??? We don't know squat about either side.
Oh and why is it these people can no longer just refer to themselves as Americans? Why is it everytime this crap come up they get to use their "label of choice" F-that.

Quote:

They could be legitimate patriotic people, or they could full out white supremacist. We don't know. But from my personal experience, the only people that would think about wearing an American flag during Cinco de Mayo, in a school with a large Hispanic population, then get all defensive about it, are more towards the racist side.

When I got dressed Wed am, the fact that it was Cinco de Mayo had ZERO to do with my choice of attire. Pretty much like every other day of the year. I understand that my area and this have vastly different cultures and population compositions, but still.

To call these kids out for wearing the US flag on their shirts IN THE US because its another country's holiday is complete and utter BS. That guy should be fired - that is the appropriate action.

piercehawkeye45 · 05-07-2010, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

I don't believe that at all. This has PC written all over it and its bullshit.

Do you have anything backing that up or is it just that you want to believe that it is PC bullshit? I personally know of schools where students would have resorted to violence or something else that would have made the situation worse. Does that mean every situation is like that? No. But as we both admit, we have no idea.

I don't really care that much and if you want to agree to disagree thats fine but my point is that there are schools where this would be a legitimate safety issue so its not that outlandish that this is not about political correctness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

And we don't know anything about the other kids, except they are "Mexican Americans." Are they into human trafficing. prostitution, drugs gun running??? We don't know squat about either side.

Of course we don't. Thats why I never made a definite statement. This could be political correct bullshit or it could be a legitimate safety concern.

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

To call these kids out for wearing the US flag on their shirts IN THE US because its another country's holiday is complete and utter BS. That guy should be fired - that is the appropriate action.

Fire a guy every time an administrator makes controversial decision? That's laughable. C'mon, this guy probably would have taken shit no matter what he did. If he let the guys wear the shirt he would have been called culturally insensitive and is not fit to work at school with a large amount of students of Mexican ethnicity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

What is the "act" that you refer to? I think it is important to the realization of a fully formed idea that it's constituent parts can be specified. I propose, unless you have some additional points that you have not brought forward, that you are referring to the act of thoughtcrime.

I realize this is "thoughtcrime" or whatever and I will say this again. I am not offended by it and disagree with those who will resort to violence because of it. But, it does happen. Thats one reason why I don't disagree with the school's decision s to make the kids take off their shirts. If it was another situation, I would be on your side of the argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

Again, you can't take action simply because you think someone is being a dick. There has to be a tangible offense.

That is not my position. I purposely mentioned that I am not offended by the action. My position is the there is a possibility that the action of wearing a shirt and bandanna with an American flag on it on Cinco de Mayo (is that the answer you were looking for?) could lead to violence and administrators possibility made the decision to avoid violence in their school, which would negatively affect students.

I will say this once again. I am willing to accept that it is political correct bullshit my stance is that this is not the case. We know nothing about the school so there is no possible way to know which is the case.

Flint · 05-07-2010, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

Quick reality check: an "act such as this" refers to what?

You didn't answer the question. Again, you said:

Quote:

I do know places where an act such of this would have resorted in violence and could have brought other students into this as well.

What is the "act" that you refer to? I think it is important to the realization of a fully formed idea that it's constituent parts can be specified. I propose, unless you have some additional points that you have not brought forward, that you are referring to the act of thoughtcrime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

We don't know. But from my personal experience, the only people that would think about wearing an American flag during Cinco de Mayo, in a school with a large Hispanic population, then get all defensive about it, are more towards the racist side.

Your position assumes that you can speak to the internal disposition of an individual, to "see" the bad intent "inside" them.

Again, you can't take action simply because you think someone is being a dick. There has to be a tangible offense.

TheMercenary · 05-07-2010, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Yes it did.

Depends on the situation. We have no idea who these kids are or how they act. I am probably biased, but I have a feeling these kids are like the kids at my school who drove around with a Confederate flag on their car during Martin Luther King Day.....in Wisconsin.

If these kids just happened to wear a shirt or bandanna with the American flag on it, then the school should have handled it better.

If the kids wore it as a big fuck you to the Mexican American population, which I am assuming it was, then I completely agree with the school's decision. It isn't ideal, but putting myself in their place, I would rather force someone to change their shirt then deal with some race related fights, which I know happen at other places.

None of that matters and none of that should have played into a decision by the powers that be to ban students of their First Amendment Rights. Fuck who ever disagrees with them. Isn't that the new norm?

05-07-2010, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

None of that matters and none of that should have played into a decision by the powers that be to ban students of their First Amendment Rights. Fuck who ever disagrees with them. Isn't that the new norm?

First Amendment rights?

Another over reaction, IMO.

Minors have never had absolute First Amendment rights, particularly in a school environment.

TheMercenary · 05-07-2010, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redux

First Amendment rights?

Another over reaction, IMO.

Minors have never had absolute First Amendment rights, particularly in a school environment.

Why would you prevent minors from having the same rights as illegal aliens?

05-07-2010, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Why would you prevent minors from having the same rights as illegal aliens?

This is not a First Amendment issue. You can find school policies and practices in any school in the country that limit the "rights" of students.

Minors do not have an absolute right to freedom of expression. They cant legally express themselves by smoking, driving, etc.......

TheMercenary · 05-07-2010, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redux

This is not a First Amendment issue. You can find school policies and practices in any school in the country that limit the "rights" of students.

Minors do not have an absolute right to freedom of expression. They cant legally smoke, drive, etc.......

Oh God that is just rich.

BS.

It depends on the state law.

You have been exposed.

You are willing to support Illegal Aliens over legal US Citizens.

Keep digging.

05-07-2010, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Oh God that is just rich.

BS.

It depends on the state law.

You have been exposed.

You are willing to support Illegal Aliens over legal US Citizens.

Keep digging.

This from the guy who insisted that the Constitution was only for citizens.

When you have a cite that shows that minors, particularly in school settings, have absolute First Amendment rights......please post it.

This might, or might not, have been a bad policy decision by the school. That is a matter of opinion.

It is not a First Amendment issue.

jinx · 05-07-2010, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pierce

there are schools where this would be a legitimate safety issue

Let's say they were sent home for their own safety, and the safety of others who might be caught up in the fray, when they were attacked in a public school for wearing their country's flag. You're good with this solution?

Quote:

A day after five Morgan Hill students were sent home for wearing American flag T-shirts, the controversy erupted ten-fold.

Ya. Huge surprise there.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)