Impeding changes to our Health Care system

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

CBO also said premiums wont increase for most Americans and the plan is deficit neutral at the least and will likely result in deficit reduction long term...and you discount both.

Basically the CBO has updated their info. According to their own statements as posted they do not think that there will be NO increases... Deficit neutral is bullshit for those who are going to pay increased premiums and co-pays. So stop with your White House talking points and lies from the the Administration. So far they have failed.

So I do like how you cherry pick CBO data.

No Cherry Picking, only a post of the latest update of the CBO response as of Jan 2010.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Basically the CBO has updated their info. According to their own statements as posted they do not think that there will be NO increases... Deficit neutral is bullshit for those who are going to pay increased premiums and co-pays. So stop with your White House talking points and lies from the the Administration. So far they have failed.

No Cherry Picking, only a post of the latest update of the CBO response as of Jan 2010.

Of course you are cherry picking.

Updated their information? Nope.

The latest CBO letter you posted was in regard to ONE component, ONE specific level of coverage (bronze) to be offered through the Exchange (which you think is a fantasy) in response to a request from ONE senator.

It supplements.....not replaces or updates. It doesnt change the overall "score" that CBO provided on the overall Senate bill that was adopted. If you know anything about the CBO scoring process, you would know that. But that requires someone interested in the full analysis and not just those pieces cherry picked to support a pre-disposed opinion.

And deficit neutral has nothing to with what any individual will pay...it refers to the impact on the federal budget.

added:
White House talking points and lies?

Have you forgotten the "death panels" and the Medicare scare tactics, the "government rationing", the industry "studies" that fudged the costs to their benefit and all those endless partisan opinion columns with an agenda that misrepresented the facts and that you flooded the discussion with.... not to mention the sudden tsunami of inane pictures you "contributed" to the discussion recently (I was actually embarrassed for you with that childish outburst until I realized that you would never man up and admit it was an over-reaction.)

Cherry picking again?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

The latest CBO letter you posted was in regard to ONE component, ONE specific level of coverage (bronze) to be offered through the Exchange (which you think is a fantasy) in response to a request from ONE senator.

That is why it is a factual bit of information that needs to be added to the debate as the American Public is then able to see what the real costs to them will be. The "Bronze" level is the lowest level of coverage, the coverage that most Americans will be exposed to. And by their own admission the costs are going to go through the roof. If you don't think that nearly $20,000 for family insurance is not a significant increase...

It supplements.....not replaces or updates. It doesnt change the overall "score" that CBO provided on the overall Senate bill that was adopted. If you know anything about the CBO scoring process, you would know that. But that requires someone interested in the full analysis and not just those pieces cherry picked to support a pre-disposed opinion.

I am quite familiar with the process. They are nothing more than a math clearing house for what ever information they are fed. They don't and cannot, by their own admission, predict what the actual costs will be in the end.

And deficit neutral has nothing to with what any individual will pay...it refers to the impact on the federal budget.

You are right, which is why for those who are actually going to see a significant increase in their costs could really care less about the fantasy of "deficit neutral". If you are paying significantly more for less care the average citizen is really not concerned with something the Federal Government has so far been unable to achieve in it's history.

Have you forgotten the "death panels" and the Medicare scare tactics, the "government rationing", the industry "studies" that fudged the costs to their benefit and all those endless partisan opinion columns with an agenda that misrepresented the facts and that you flooded the discussion with.... not to mention the sudden tsunami of inane pictures you "contributed" to the discussion recently

Your opinion. The opinion peices I contributed were merely against your parties line. That does not make them "partisan", other than they disagreed with your White House talking points. If you look at the majority of opinion pieces they are from subject matter experts, not a partisan mouth piece of the Demoncratic party.

[SamIam]

Here is the real problem with our health care system.

It's hard to constantly come up with new ways to say "America spends way, way, way, way, way more than any other country on health care." But we do! Just look at the National Geographic graph above, which puts per-person spending on one side of the chart and average life expectancy on the other. Or consider this: If we spent what Canada spends per person, our deficit problem would go away entirely. And Canada's per-person average is in a country where everybody is fully covered and so has full access to care. America's is in a country with 47 million uninsured, and so many people skimp on needed care. So the comparison is actually unfair to Canada.

David Leonhardt has another way of making the point. We don't have a government-run system. But our system is so expensive that our government's partial role is pricier than the whole of government-run systems.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezr...y_way_mor.html

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

That is why it is a factual bit of information that needs to be added to the debate as the American Public is then able to see what the real costs to them will be. The "Bronze" level is the lowest level of coverage, the coverage that most Americans will be exposed to. And by their own admission the costs are going to go through the roof. If you don't think that nearly $20,000 for family insurance is not a significant increase...

I am quite familiar with the process. They are nothing more than a math clearing house for what ever information they are fed. They don't and cannot, by their own admission, predict what the actual costs will be in the end.

You are right, which is why for those who are actually going to see a significant increase in their costs could really care less about the fantasy of "deficit neutral". If you are paying significantly more for less care the average citizen is really not concerned with something the Federal Government has so far been unable to achieve in it's history.

Your opinion. The opinion peices I contributed were merely against your parties line. That does not make them "partisan", other than they disagreed with your White House talking points. If you look at the majority of opinion pieces they are from subject matter experts, not a partisan mouth piece of the Demoncratic party.

Sure, dude. Everyone is partisan but you and your links and your cherry picking!



It was Voltaire who said: "The perfect is the enemy of the good"

It is not a perfect bill but I believe it is a good bill, wtih signficant benefits to those both with insurance and without. I also understand that no major legislation is implemented w/o bumps along the road and I expect there will be some with this bill.

But the fact remains that no one knows the level at which it will succeed or not...and, IMO, should not be described as a failure before it is impemented.

You believe that you and those opposed to the bill somehow have greater insight into the future.

Sorry, dude. IMO, the lies and propaganda that you have perpetrated is partisanship at its worst and I, and many others here, see right through it.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

Sorry, dude. IMO, the lies and propaganda that you have perpetrated is partisanship at its worst and I, and many others here, see right through it.

No lies. Little propaganda, well except what you post from the Demoncratic and White House talking points. Why is it that anyone who does not agree with the current plan is Demonized by the Demoncrats? I bet you the voters will let them know in a few short months.

Meanwhile, the secret talks at the White House continue. Even though I have posted a video of 8 time the President stood before the American public and stated categorically that the discussion would be open and transparent. There is a good like for you Redux, and your president gave it to you...

Senior Democratic lawmakers who spent hours at the White House on Wednesday rearranged their schedules to return at mid-afternoon, and Obama planned to address a closed-door meeting of the House Democratic rank and file in late afternoon.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34859430...h_care_reform/

Negotiations are being done in private behind closed doors, that despite the President's promise last year to keep the proceedings open to the public. President Obama repeatedly stated that negotiations would be televised on C-SPAN, but as of Thursday afternoon, that hasn't happened. C-SPAN CEO Brian Lamb accused President Obama of using his network as a "political football." Lamb, speaking on Bill Press' show, said Obama had "no right" to assume C-SPAN would cover the talks in the first place.

http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=11786376

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Why is it that anyone who does not agree with the current plan is Demonized by the Demoncrats?..

Why is it that anyone who does not agree with you or the insurance front groups or libertarian (stay our of our lives) groups are demonized as partisan?

Can you say hypocrite? Double standard?

You're still not fooling anyone.

[TheMercenary]

[quote=Redux;626522]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Why is it that anyone who does not agree with you is demonized as a partisan?

I only reserve that for people who spout the propaganda of the Demoncrats or White House. So that leaves everyone else in this country who disagrees with your party, regardless of party. So it is the Dems vs everyone else in the country who is not in support of your party.

But as I said, the voters are going to let you know in a few short months.