Obama: "I'm ready to negotiate with you, Iran." Iran: "Fuck you."

[ZenGum]

Its like that noisy little weedy kid who has gotten used to getting his own way by yelling and screaming and throwing tantrums.

It would be good if there were some way we could administer the equivalent of a good spanking to the tiny group of leaders responsible for this, without killing huge numbers of relatively innocent civillians.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

Its like that noisy little weedy kid who has gotten used to getting his own way by yelling and screaming and throwing tantrums.

It would be good if there were some way we could administer the equivalent of a good spanking to the tiny group of leaders responsible for this, without killing huge numbers of relatively innocent civillians.

assassination?

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

assassination?

Assassinations can easily backfire.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Assassinations can easily backfire.

yes, yes, but it's cheaper than YEARS and YEARS of war... or... whatever it is when you engage in war, but Congress never approves it as a war...

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

yes, yes, but it's cheaper than YEARS and YEARS of war... or... whatever it is when you engage in war, but Congress never approves it as a war...

Not necessarily. A lot of times society is not the product of a ruler but the ruler is a product of society. If it is the latter, an assassination will only bring in a new, most likely worse, [insert whatever].

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Not necessarily. A lot of times society is not the product of a ruler but the ruler is a product of society. If it is the latter, an assassination will only bring in a new, most likely worse, [insert whatever].

Which is why the exhausting, expensive business of being defeated in a war proves a better resetter of societal rules, viz., 1939-45 Germany, Italy, and Japan. Everyone has their nose rubbed in and-how'd-that-work-for-you? They realize it didn't, and make the necessary sweeping ruleset change.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

yes, yes, but it's cheaper than YEARS and YEARS of war... or... whatever it is when you engage in war, but Congress never approves it as a war...

It's a war. Quacks like a duck, etcetera.

Congressionally declared states of war carry with them enlarged government authority, so declaration is heavy with internal political consequence: Lincoln suspended habeas corpus for the duration. Jane Fonda might be either in exile as long as Roman Polanski, or only recently out of prison after being convicted of treason per Article III, Section 3 para 1, US Constitution. Things like that.

But, since the Constitution does not forbid calling out the Army without a Congressional declaration, and it is clear that the option of sending troops, and quickly, without having to put the entire nation on a war footing each time has some real advantages in promoting national policy, the precedent runs about 150 shooting affrays with or in foreign places to 5 Congressional declarations -- and they're still wars. Just various sizes.

Come to 9-11, the feeling both nationwide and on Capitol Hill was that while a declaration of war would very much focus the nation's energies on beating the kaffiyehs off the foe, such a response was somehow misaimed or disproportionate. Not, in the end, right.

None of which tergiversation makes trying to win the fight illegal.

Were it illegal, we're, what? Not supposed to win? Keerist. What's up with that?

And when you really think about what's up with that, it gives you the creeps.