Computers the control the power grid have been hacked

[classicman]

So what you are saying is that the answer to almost ever discussion on the board is more Gov't control.

Originally Posted by classicman

So what you are saying is that the answer to almost ever discussion on the board is more Gov't control.

Not quite.

I am saying that there are areas in which government regulation (not the same as government control) would, IMO, be more effective than relying on the private sector ("free market") participation in voluntary guidelines.

National security issues relating to the nation's infrastructure would be one of those areas.

Wall Street (banking/financial services) is another...as are environmental protection, food safety.....

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

Not quite.

I am saying that there are areas in which government regulation (not the same as government control) would, IMO, be more effective than relying on the private sector ("free market") participation in voluntary guidelines.

National security issues relating to the nation's infrastructure would be one of those areas.

Wall Street (banking/financial services) is another...as are environmental protection, food safety.....

AKA, Big Government = Better.

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

AKA, Big Government = Better.

Not exactly.

Reasonable government regulation = better than voluntary industry compliance of essential services in order to protect the health and welfare of the citizens.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

Not exactly.

Reasonable government regulation = better than voluntary industry compliance in essential services to protect the health and welfare of the citizens.

Previous attempts at that have created big bloated bureaucracies, inefficiency, and cost over-runs. Sorry, I don't buy into that.

Time will tell with the intervention and take over of the numerous banking, credit, and insurance sectors, and now with the auto industry. But they have failed miserably in health care.

[TheMercenary]

Well now that bankruptcy looks more inevitable what about their hundreds of suppliers and all those small/medium businesses? Isn't much of that going to happen anyway? I watched an interview with the interm CEO and he said they are going to produce only one pick-up truck in all of the GM family. That alone is huge. Not to mention re-tooling costs, etc. Not to say it is not an inevitable evil anyways, just that we poured billions of tax payer $$ into a hole that would never have been saved in the first place. I don't know. But I am not happy about it.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Well now that bankruptcy looks more inevitable what about their hundreds of suppliers and all those small/medium businesses? Isn't much of that going to happen anyway?

They may, or may not, fail in the future, but they were paid for what they produced in the past. I'm sure some will fold, some will survive by changing their product line, and some will continue to make autoparts, but at least they're starting into the future without being in an impossible hole.

I watched an interview with the interm CEO and he said they are going to produce only one pick-up truck in all of the GM family. That alone is huge. Not to mention re-tooling costs, etc. Not to say it is not an inevitable evil anyways, just that we poured billions of tax payer $$ into a hole that would never have been saved in the first place. I don't know. But I am not happy about it.

I think they are talking about eliminating either the Chevy or GMC line of trucks, which were identical except for trim anyway. I can't imagine not having the choice between 2 or 4 wheel drive, that would suck. Eliminating the choice of 2 or 4 door, maybe. Long or short bed, probably.
More likely they are talking about one line, rather than one truck.
It wouldn't be additional tooling but eliminating some existing tooling, other than changes, which is possible.

[tw]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Well now that bankruptcy looks more inevitable what about their hundreds of suppliers and all those small/medium businesses?

The longer that GM puts off the inevitable, the worse a bankruptcy becomes. Had GM done bankruptcy in 1991 (they were only 4 hours away), then GM may have fixed itself back then. Nobody (except executives) were harmed. But GM played money games for almost 20 years to avoid bankruptcy rather than fix the company. Even shorted the pension funds; then claimed unfair competition due to legacy costs. As a result, bankruptcy becomes almost inevitable and must now be quite painful.

Many are now talking about GM as only Chevy and Cadillac. I suspect that would be too ruthless. Buick should also survive. Not much more. For example, GM should have to sell off its locomotive division. GM has stifled innovation for so long that only ruthless and painful bankruptcy will save it (or something equivalent). That is the only salvation for its suppliers.

As we can see from the latest news reports, Wagoner again pretended it could all be fixed. His denial of problem was down to GM could maybe sell off a few divisions. Nonsense. Who wants divisions that were restructured so they could not be sold? Those denials only meant GM must downsize even more; that employees must even lose jobs. That many suppliers must also face bankruptcy. A disaster that would not have occurred had GM been forced into bankruptcy long ago when Wagoner was earning a reputations in 1991 GM as a shrewd finance guy who could 'make the spread sheets say what they had to say'.

Then we should be reviewing GM’s accounting for fraud prosecution. Why is this any different than Jeff Skilling?

Ford recognized they were in trouble when Jacque Nasser was running Ford into the earth. The fights between William Clay and Nasser were said to be so violent that on two occasions, security was called. Because Nasser was removed, Ford started designing a 70 Horsepower per liter engine. That engine has only recently come to market (little hint to those who learn that investing is all about the product). Therefore Ford does not need bailout money. It may be an ugly car (Futura), but it is one of few American cars worthy of a consumer's attention. Why does Ford not need a bailout? Unlike GM, Ford suddenly started innovating again some 7(?) years ago.

Chrysler has no hope of survival. Fiat may buy its pieces. But Chrysler is gone the same way that AT&T disappeared. Another trophy for the MBA Nardelli. And a slap in the face of Cerebus Capital who ran to the government and who has nothing in the Chrysler innovation pipeline. Chrysler even had a hybrid in 1999. Where is it? Cerebus also played money games rather than innovate. Welcome to why Chrysler's bankruptcy must be even more severe.

[Undertoad]

Government intervened to create the public corporation, so I see it as a wash when government intervenes in the operation of such.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Government intervened to create the public corporation, so I see it as a wash when government intervenes in the operation of such.

Government intervention and regulations are directly traceable to how that corporation or industry was run. Some industries must be heavily regulated due to their history. Others that have a long history of innovation - that are more interested in the product than profits - require minimal if any regulation. Learn from history. Finance industry and auto industries deserve heavy regulation according to their history. Auto no where near as stringent as finance. Finance industry historically being one of the most corrupt requires the heaviest of hands. Semiconductor an example of a resposibile industry that requires so little government oversight.

[TheMercenary]

Yea, but at that cost to the people? Hell, they should have just gone in and nationalized them. It would have been a hell of a lot cheaper.

[TheMercenary]

Yea, I meant for the re-tooling of the plant that lost the trucks, if they can do that. He did mention the line they were keeping but I can't remember which one. I imagine the Chevy would make the cut over the GMC.

Also note that Ford did not take any bailout money. So far they are the best positioned to make a great comeback.

[xoxoxoBruce]

It would have to be Chevy rather than GMC.

Yeah, retooling the plants (the ones that don't close) from trucks to marketable vehicles will be very expensive, but it's necessary and will pay for itself if they are sucessful... big if.

Ford has been through a number lean times, with subsequent management changes, in the recent past and looks like they now have people running the show that know something about cars and the market.

[classicman]

Hackers stole data on Pentagon's newest fighter jet

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Thousands of confidential files on the U.S. military's most technologically advanced fighter aircraft have been compromised by unknown computer hackers over the past two years, according to senior defense officials.
The Internet intruders were able to gain access to data related to the design and electronics systems of the Joint Strike Fighter through computers of Pentagon contractors in charge of designing and building the aircraft, according to the officials, who did not want to be identified because of the sensitivity of the issue.

In addition to files relating to the aircraft, hackers gained entry into the Air Force's air traffic control systems, according to the officials. Once they got in, the Internet hackers were able to see such information as the locations of U.S. military aircraft in flight.

The Joint Striker Fighter plane is the military's new F-35 Lightning II. It designed to become the aircraft used by all of the branches of service.

Most of the files broken into focused on the design and performance statistics of the fighter, as well as its electronic systems, officials said. The information could be used to make the plane easier to fight or defend against.

Additionally, the system used by the aircraft to conduct self-diagnostics during flight was compromised by the computer intrusions, according to the officials.

Oops

[sugarpop]

They also stole info on the helicopters that we aren't funding now. Kinda makes you wonder, doesn't it?