Bush suddenly an interesting character again

Originally Posted by sugarpop

I think whistleblowers need better protection as well, in government and in corporate America, but I also think it's pretty horrifying that someone could leak an active undercover intelligence agent's name to the press and not be prosecuted. That is a serious national security leak. And bush was supposed to be all about national security. The truth is, bush was about what was convenient for bush. Now he's trying to claim executive priviledge for people who worked for him in perpetuity (I'm talking about Karl Rove). The man really does think he is above the law. I want to see him knocked down off that pedestal.

I agree that someone higher than Libby (Cheney?) should be held accountable..but its not gonna happen and at this point, I would prefer to look ahead.

BTW, Undertoad...if Tice, in his recent interviews, had provided any detail beyond just the general outline of what he observed in the way of potentially illegal spying on citizens by the NSA with an authorization from Bush, he would likely have been subject to arrest under the Official Secrets Act.

What I would like to see is an independent commission like the one proposed last month by the Democratic chair of the House Judiciary Committee.

To establish a national commission on presidential war powers and civil liberties

There is established the National Commission on Presidential War Powers and Civil Liberties (hereinafter in this Act referred to as the ‘Commission’) to investigate the broad range of policies of the Administration of President George W. Bush that were undertaken under claims of unreviewable war powers, including detention by the United States Armed Forces and the intelligence community, the use by the United States Armed Forces or the intelligence community of enhanced interrogation techniques or interrogation techniques not authorized by the Uniform Code of Military Justice, ‘ghosting’ or other policies intended to conceal the fact that an individual has been captured or detained, extraordinary rendition, domestic warrantless electronic surveillance, and other policies that the Commission may determine to be relevant to its investigation (hereinafter in this Act referred to as ‘the activities’).

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-104

Not for punitive purposes against Bush administration officials, but rather to ensure that questionable abuses of power that occurred over the last eight years are not enabled through dubious legal justifications for Obama or any future president. Bush would be required to waive executive immunity for anyone other than himself (which is probably unconstitutional under most circumstances anyway) and I would even give sweeping immunity to lower level persons who might have been engaged in those questionable practices to get at the truth.

Something along the lines of a Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by Redux

I agree that someone higher than Libby (Cheney?) should be held accountable..but its not gonna happen and at this point, I would prefer to look ahead.

BTW, Undertoad...if Tice, in his recent interviews, had provided any detail beyond just the general outline of what he observed in the way of potentially illegal spying on citizens by the NSA with an authorization from Bush, he would likely have been subject to arrest under the Official Secrets Act.

What I would like to see is an independent commission like the one proposed last month by the Democratic chair of the House Judiciary Committee.



Not for punitive purposes against Bush administration officials, but rather to ensure that questionable abuses of power that occurred over the last eight years are not enabled through dubious legal justifications for Obama or any future president. Bush would be required to waive executive immunity for anyone other than himself (which is probably unconstitutional under most circumstances anyway) and I would even give sweeping immunity to lower level persons who might have been engaged in those questionable practices to get at the truth.

Something along the lines of a Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

So you don't bush officials should be prosecuted if they are found guilty of committing a crime?

What I find completely unacceptable is the attitude of so many people, including apparently President Obama, to not want to get to the bottom of what went on, and to prosecute anyone and everyone guilty of a crime. That's like saying, oh, let's just let the murderer or rapist go (or Bernie Madoff for that matter), because you know, it's in the past, and we should just move on.

Either we are a nation of laws, or we are not. If we aren't willing to go after the most powerful people in the country (in government and business) for committing crimes, then we should throw out the lawbooks for everyone. Otherwise this is NOT a free country, and we nothing more than a bunch of hypocrites.

Originally Posted by sugarpop

So you don't bush officials should be prosecuted if they are found guilty of committing a crime?

What I find completely unacceptable is the attitude of so many people, including apparently President Obama, to not want to get to the bottom of what went on, and to prosecute anyone and everyone guilty of a crime. That's like saying, oh, let's just let the murderer or rapist go (or Bernie Madoff for that matter), because you know, it's in the past, and we should just move on.

Either we are a nation of laws, or we are not. If we aren't willing to go after the most powerful people in the country (in government and business) for committing crimes, then we should throw out the lawbooks for everyone. Otherwise this is NOT a free country, and we nothing more than a bunch of hypocrites.

Prosecutors at every level make value judgments all the time as to whether it is in the public interest to proceed or not with particular cases of alleged criminal activity. In other cases, they compromise (offer plea bargains) to get at the truth.

I think the potential cost to the country of having criminal trials that will be perceived by many as highly partisan, and creating a greater divide within the country than already exists, outweighs the benefits. In these troubled times, that is the last thing we need.

I want documents declassified and a structure in place to review the Bush administration's actions from a bi-partisan legal perspective....for the purpose of providing safeguards, if necessary, to prevent those actions from being repeated.

If that happens and the truth is brought to light, historians and the people will make the final judgement of the last eight years.

I can live with that.