There are no illegal immigrants in America

[BigV]

Originally Posted by Radar

Immigrants are those who live here. If a French immigrant lives in America and he travels to Brazil and someone asks where he is here from, he will say he is in Brazil FROM the United States. He is Pierre OF Idaho. Nothing needs to be interpreted and nothing is vague no matter how much you try to make it so.

Point of order, Radar. Pierre is in South Dakota, not Idaho.

Carry on.

[regular.joe]

[BigV]

Are you serious, regular.joe? Do you think that the statement mercy made that the constitution doesn't apply to non citizens is the same argument from the previous hundred posts?

I don't.

I see this as a different question altogether.

I would also be very interested in hearing your input on this. I have found your recent posts on this topic to be quite valuable. You're reasonable, articulate, informed, intelligent and engaged in the discussion.

[regular.joe]

Thanks bigV. It's beating a horse for me. I'm all posted out for now. Perhaps later, after I take a break. I'll keep reading.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by BigV

What?

If the Constitution, the very basis upon which all our other laws are founded, does not apply to non citizens, what does apply? What other laws apply if our Constitution does not?

It does apply. They are merely attempting to dehumanize others and suggest that merely being born in America entitles you to more rights than someone else. Humans are born with rights. Those rights don't come from governments. The Constitution was written to limit the power and authority of government and to defend the rights of all people who are governed by the United States....this of course applies to the undocumented and LEGAL immigrants who came here without checking in with Uncle Sam.

[Radar]

Now that we have settled this and we all know the Constitution defends the rights of all people governed in the United States, and that the federal government has zero Constitutional authority over immigration we can finally put this thread to rest.

[Undertoad]

epic fail

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Undertoad

epic fail

totally; not the sharpest tack in the box.

[binky]

Originally Posted by Radar

Now that we have settled this and we all know the Constitution defends the rights of all people governed in the United States, and that the federal government has zero Constitutional authority over immigration we can finally put this thread to rest.

YES PLEASE

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by BigV

What?

If the Constitution, the very basis upon which all our other laws are founded, does not apply to non citizens, what does apply? What other laws apply if our Constitution does not?

Written by, and intended for the citizens of the United States. It was not written for people of Mexico, Canada, Japan, or China. Once legal migrants come here and become US citizens they are afforded all the rights of our Constitution as it was written. It was not written for the ciminals to enter our country illegally.

WE THE PEOPLE of the United States, 1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1 It is important to notice that this is a government of the people, not of the States. Under the Articles of Confederation, in effect as our first form of "national" government, agreed to by the Continental Congress on November 15,1777 and in force after ratification by Maryland on March 1, 1782 until the ratification of the Constitution for the United States in 1788 and George Washington's inauguration as the nation's first President under the Constitution on April 30, 1789, the States as political entities, and not the people, entered into "a firm league of friendship", each State retaining "its sovereignty, freedom and independence." The new Constitution for the United States brought in a new Nation, the United States of America, deriving its "just powers from the consent of the governed."

"The people, the highest authority known to our system," said President Monroe, "from whom all our institutions spring and whom they depend, formed it."

"Its language, 'We the People,' is the institution of one great consolidated National government of the people of all the States, instead of a government by compact with the States for its agents," exclaimed Patrick Henry in the Virginia ratifying assembly while leading opposition to its adoption, "The people gave the [Constitutional] Convention no power to use their name." Some States restricted the authority of their delegates to revising the Articles of Confederation. It was claimed that the casting aside of the Articles of Confederation (which could be altered or amended only by the concurrence of every State) for a constitution to become effective when adopted by nine of the thirteen States was revolutionary. It was, in fact, a coup d'Etat. Revision only was uppermost in the minds of many. On February 21, 1787, the Congress existing under the Articles called a convention "for the sole and express purpose of revising the Articles of Confederation and reporting to Congress and the several legislatures such alterations and provisions therein as shall, when agreed to in Congress and confirmed by the States, render the federal Constitution adequate to the exigencies of government and the preservation of the Union." But it was the belief of the Constitutional Convention that as the new instrument was to go to the people for ratification or rejection, the objections stated by Henry and others were really unimportant.

http://www.barefootsworld.net/constit1.html

[Radar]

Originally Posted by binky

YES PLEASE

Thank you. So it's settled. ALL PEOPLE living within the borders of the United States have the same Constitutional protection of their rights and the federal government has absolutely no Constitutional authority over immigration.

End of story.

[BigV]

You're wrong mercy.

Let's follow your argument a bit to it's logical conclusions.

You say, The Constitution applies only to US citizens. That the Constitution does not apply to illegal immigrants. This is ridiculous on its face. By what definition and authority are these immigrants illegal then? It's pretty easy to understand what makes them immigrants. They were there, they are here.... not so tough.

But you insist on calling them illegal, implying that there's some law that they're breaking. How can they break a law that doesn't apply to them?

[Aliantha]

Originally Posted by Radar

Thank you. So it's settled. ALL PEOPLE living within the borders of the United States have the same Constitutional protection of their rights and the federal government has absolutely no Constitutional authority over immigration.

End of story.

OMG! We should have all just read the first post and that would have been the end of it.

Silly us!

[BigV]

mercy, let's take it in the other direction too.

The Constitution applies to US citizens. Ok, then. When you, a US citizen, travel to another country, are you still covered by the Constitution? A better question is this: Are you subject to the laws of the country you're in?

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Radar

Now that we have settled this and we all know the Constitution defends the rights of all people governed in the United States, and that the federal government has zero Constitutional authority over immigration we can finally put this thread to rest.

My dear radar - you nutty lil fruitcake - please, please, please at least keep your dignity.

( yeah, I stole ur smilie)