Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week - Page 5

piercehawkeye45 · 10-31-2007, 04:38 PM

God, I seriously don't want to start a Palestine - Israel argument but I want to comment on a single thing.

Quote:

Israel has given food, shelter, clothing, and support to the so-called Palestinian people

They do this because the Palestinian people can not support an independent economy for reasons of relocation, loss of motivation, and the shrinking of a state to one fourth its original size and maintaining the fourth (its around there) most dense population in the world.

This is why a two state solution can never work. Palestine can not support its own economy no matter how much they "change" their culture, a mindset I hate because American culture does not change when it needs too either so criticizing them is extremely hypocritical. I will be more than accepting when Americans find a way not to elect liars into national office and not over consume resources.

Radar · 10-31-2007, 04:40 PM

If they can't support or defend themselves without murdering others, they don't deserve to be an independent nation. Israel can survive fine even if America cut off every dollar of foreign aid and still be able to defend itself against all of its aggressive neighbors.

lookout123 · 10-31-2007, 04:40 PM

Quote:

American culture does not change when it needs too either

so you're saying i can buy my neighbor?

piercehawkeye45 · 10-31-2007, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radar

If they can't support or defend themselves without murdering others, they don't deserve to be an independent nation. Israel can survive fine even if America cut off every dollar of foreign aid and still be able to defend itself against all of its aggressive neighbors.

Palestinians are very peaceful for how many people live there and the situation they are in. It could be A LOT worse, if all Palestinians revolted there would be A LOT more than a few deaths a month.

Also, you and Rzkenrage have threatened to shoot at the government if they take your guns away, you can not seriously tell me that you wouldn't be blowing shit up if they forcefully relocated you and everyone you love then throw you in a cage where you have no hope for a peaceful life. Most Palestinians are peaceful people who are just being screwed over and then you have others trying to stir shit up making it worse. What you are saying is basically equivalent to saying all Americans believe we should attack any country that disagrees with us because the neo-cons do. But, we should be stopping that shouldn't we....

Imagine a foreigner, and there are these people, saying that the world should support anyone that resists the US because Americans support Bush and what they are doing. How would you react? Oh yeah, and everyone in America should be punished even more because of the actions of Bush.

Quote:

so you're saying i can buy my neighbor?

Ok, I will reword that. I have seen very little change in America except for a few examples where Americans have changed something that they have not been forced to do. But once again, when Americans can stop electing liars into office and stop over consuming resources, it will be much easier to criticize.

Happy Monkey · 10-31-2007, 04:52 PM

That change happened a few centuries after it needed to.

Rexmons · 10-31-2007, 05:18 PM

looks like the british government is doing their part helping aid fear against islam:

deadbeater · 10-31-2007, 05:32 PM

It is ironic that the US and GB is supporting a state as extreme as Saudi Arabia.

Sundae · 10-31-2007, 05:34 PM

This is NOT a broadcast by the British Goverment. It is by Channel 4 news which is our most liberal news programme.

The voiceover in the report is Krishnan Guru-Murthy, a British Asian (which shouldn't matter, but I thought I would point it out).

The interview is reasonably well balanced in my opinion. It is not spoon fed news, it allows different opinions to be heard. Jon Snow interviews everyone in the same way - the subjects stand up as well as they choose to.

Sundae · 10-31-2007, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadbeater

It is ironic that the US and GB is supporting a state as extreme as Saudi Arabia.

That I agree with.

DanaC · 10-31-2007, 05:49 PM

Frankly I am disgusted that our country awarded the highest possible accolade to the Saudi royals. And that has bugger all to do with whther they are an Islamic nation or not. The Saudi state is a disgrace. It is deeply oppressive, treats women like non-humans in the eyes of the law, practices mutilation as a way to punish thieves (including children), considers homosexuality a crime worthy of barbaric execution and considers a raped woman to be guilty of adultery unless she can produce 4 witnesses. Add that to the fact that many trade unionists and political activists have been imprisoned, without trial and for long periods and tortured and you have a state that is operating so far outside of International law that a civilised country should not be putting out the red carpet for them.

I couldn't give a toss if they're moslems or not, I do give a toss about their utter disregard for human rights.

piercehawkeye45 · 10-31-2007, 05:58 PM

I agree with Dana.

Though I have heard, and read but I can't find where, that if you are rich in Saudi Arabia, and Iran, you can get away with being gay and that. It does in no way justify what they do but it shows signs of progression.

Not what I'm looking for but here is something.
http://www.sodomylaws.org/world/saud...audinews19.htm

DanaC · 10-31-2007, 06:02 PM

Incidentally. I have been on these boards many times and argued against the rampant Islamaphobia which currently exists in the Uk and I suspect in the US. That said, I find the Wahabi interpretation of Islam to be fundamentally opposed to Western values of human (and in this case human also means female) rights. I will fight to my last breath the rising tide of anti-moslem, racist aggression in this country but I also utterly oppose the the promotion of an interpretation of Islam which dictates that a man has the right and duty to ensure his wife and daughters remain covered up in public, to the point of beating them if they refuse. I object to the idea that children born in this country are taught through, wahabi education programmes and preaching, that women are lesser creatures and that homosexuals deserve to be stoned to death.

"Women should have subordinate positions"

That little girls and little boys are being taught this in my country disgusts me. And I refuse to be labelled anti-moslem because of it. I have moslem friends and they're as appalled by this stuff as I am. I have sat and talked about it with them. It worries them that this kind of extreme teaching is filtering in to otherwise respectable mosques.

Sundae · 10-31-2007, 06:06 PM

Thanks to St Paul, many extremist Christian women are being taught that a woman's place is in the home and subservient to a man. I agree that human rights should always come before religion, especially centuries old paternalistic religions.

I guess that's why we both like Sheri S Tepper, huh?

DanaC · 10-31-2007, 06:10 PM

*laughs* God Bless Sheri! I still think Mavin Manyshaped is why I grew up a feminist....well that and Marion Zimmer Bradley :P

Radar · 10-31-2007, 06:11 PM

The fact of the matter is the so-called Palestinian people weren't thrown in a cage, aren't oppressed by Israel, have never had any land stolen from them, and are only held back by their own actions. The so-called Palestinians aren't wanted by anyone in the middle-east...not even Jordan where 75% of them came from.

Israel didn't create any "situation" for the Palestinians. They did that on their own.

If the so-called Palestinians chose to revolt and start more widespread violence, it would be their own undoing because Israel is fully capable of destroying each and every single one of them, and all of their surrounding nations without any help from America.

Israel just wants to be left the hell alone. Israel is generous and kind and gives food, water, clothing, shelter, etc. to the so-called Palestinians. Israel allows Arab man and women to live, work, vote, and hold political office even though no Arab nation allows Jews or women to do that...and in most cases, the men can't vote either because they are living in a dictatorship or monarchy.

Israel hasn't "screwed over" the so-called Palestinian people. If anything, the opposite is true. Israel has given...and given...and given in hopes of peace, but you can't make peace with those who don't recognize your right to exist. You can't reason with unreasonable people. You can't make peace with those who would give up everything just to see you dead.

As long as the Arab people get it through their heads that Israel is not going anywhere and attacking Israel will result in their own destruction, everything will be fine.

10-31-2007, 04:40 PM	#62
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	If they can't support or defend themselves without murdering others, they don't deserve to be an independent nation. Israel can survive fine even if America cut off every dollar of foreign aid and still be able to defend itself against all of its aggressive neighbors. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

10-31-2007, 04:52 PM	#65
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	That change happened a few centuries after it needed to. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

10-31-2007, 05:18 PM	#66
Rexmons - Kavkaz United - Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 613	looks like the british government is doing their part helping aid fear against islam: __________________ "Life's a bitch but God forbid the bitch divorce me..."

10-31-2007, 05:34 PM	#68
Sundae polaroid of perfection Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 24,185	This is NOT a broadcast by the British Goverment. It is by Channel 4 news which is our most liberal news programme. The voiceover in the report is Krishnan Guru-Murthy, a British Asian (which shouldn't matter, but I thought I would point it out). The interview is reasonably well balanced in my opinion. It is not spoon fed news, it allows different opinions to be heard. Jon Snow interviews everyone in the same way - the subjects stand up as well as they choose to. __________________ Life's hard you know, so strike a pose on a Cadillac

10-31-2007, 06:06 PM	#73
Sundae polaroid of perfection Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 24,185	Thanks to St Paul, many extremist Christian women are being taught that a woman's place is in the home and subservient to a man. I agree that human rights should always come before religion, especially centuries old paternalistic religions. I guess that's why we both like Sheri S Tepper, huh? __________________ Life's hard you know, so strike a pose on a Cadillac

10-31-2007, 05:32 PM	#67
deadbeater Sir Post-A-Lot Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 439	It is ironic that the US and GB is supporting a state as extreme as Saudi Arabia.

10-31-2007, 05:49 PM	#70
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Frankly I am disgusted that our country awarded the highest possible accolade to the Saudi royals. And that has bugger all to do with whther they are an Islamic nation or not. The Saudi state is a disgrace. It is deeply oppressive, treats women like non-humans in the eyes of the law, practices mutilation as a way to punish thieves (including children), considers homosexuality a crime worthy of barbaric execution and considers a raped woman to be guilty of adultery unless she can produce 4 witnesses. Add that to the fact that many trade unionists and political activists have been imprisoned, without trial and for long periods and tortured and you have a state that is operating so far outside of International law that a civilised country should not be putting out the red carpet for them. I couldn't give a toss if they're moslems or not, I do give a toss about their utter disregard for human rights.

10-31-2007, 05:58 PM	#71
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	I agree with Dana. Though I have heard, and read but I can't find where, that if you are rich in Saudi Arabia, and Iran, you can get away with being gay and that. It does in no way justify what they do but it shows signs of progression. Not what I'm looking for but here is something. http://www.sodomylaws.org/world/saud...audinews19.htm

10-31-2007, 06:02 PM	#72
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Incidentally. I have been on these boards many times and argued against the rampant Islamaphobia which currently exists in the Uk and I suspect in the US. That said, I find the Wahabi interpretation of Islam to be fundamentally opposed to Western values of human (and in this case human also means female) rights. I will fight to my last breath the rising tide of anti-moslem, racist aggression in this country but I also utterly oppose the the promotion of an interpretation of Islam which dictates that a man has the right and duty to ensure his wife and daughters remain covered up in public, to the point of beating them if they refuse. I object to the idea that children born in this country are taught through, wahabi education programmes and preaching, that women are lesser creatures and that homosexuals deserve to be stoned to death. "Women should have subordinate positions" That little girls and little boys are being taught this in my country disgusts me. And I refuse to be labelled anti-moslem because of it. I have moslem friends and they're as appalled by this stuff as I am. I have sat and talked about it with them. It worries them that this kind of extreme teaching is filtering in to otherwise respectable mosques.

10-31-2007, 06:10 PM	#74
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	laughs God Bless Sheri! I still think Mavin Manyshaped is why I grew up a feminist....well that and Marion Zimmer Bradley :P

10-31-2007, 06:11 PM	#75
Radar Constitutional Scholar Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ocala, FL Posts: 4,006	The fact of the matter is the so-called Palestinian people weren't thrown in a cage, aren't oppressed by Israel, have never had any land stolen from them, and are only held back by their own actions. The so-called Palestinians aren't wanted by anyone in the middle-east...not even Jordan where 75% of them came from. Israel didn't create any "situation" for the Palestinians. They did that on their own. If the so-called Palestinians chose to revolt and start more widespread violence, it would be their own undoing because Israel is fully capable of destroying each and every single one of them, and all of their surrounding nations without any help from America. Israel just wants to be left the hell alone. Israel is generous and kind and gives food, water, clothing, shelter, etc. to the so-called Palestinians. Israel allows Arab man and women to live, work, vote, and hold political office even though no Arab nation allows Jews or women to do that...and in most cases, the men can't vote either because they are living in a dictatorship or monarchy. Israel hasn't "screwed over" the so-called Palestinian people. If anything, the opposite is true. Israel has given...and given...and given in hopes of peace, but you can't make peace with those who don't recognize your right to exist. You can't reason with unreasonable people. You can't make peace with those who would give up everything just to see you dead. As long as the Arab people get it through their heads that Israel is not going anywhere and attacking Israel will result in their own destruction, everything will be fine. __________________ "I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death." - George Carlin

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