Horrifying gang rape & assault on mother & son

[Cicero]

Clarification

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Its hard to make that argument since most of the crime like this comes from lower class communities. This has been the trend throughout history that poverty allows a greater number and more brutal (at least on the surface) crime on an individual level.

If these kids were raised in a suburban neighborhood, I have a really hard time believing they would be pulling the same shit. They would still be the "bad" kids but suburban kids that get in trouble have no comparison to urban kids that get in trouble.

In reality, it has to be a great mixture of genetics, parenting, and environment.

Tell that to Jeffery Dahmer. Not that I disagree that more sick stuff happens in the impoverished areas. I just think that you are letting suburbanites off the hook. Just like everyone else.......I know what suburbanite kids do.
Never heard of the football team rapists? Not to be cliche but.......

[Radar]

Let's see, someone gang rapes a woman and forces her into incest with her son, who they blinded and beat, and I dish out the punishment they deserve, and I'm the sick one?

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by Radar

Let's see, someone gang rapes a woman and forces her into incest with her son, who they blinded and beat, and I dish out the punishment they deserve, and I'm the sick one?

I have an answer for that. Nope, not sick for that.
I think people are confused between Justified Anger on the behalf of a fellow human being and sickness.
Which is a completely different subject............but at this point, something to point out to all those in the "just as sick as they are" camp.
I am done monopolizing this thread though....I can be such a harpy...........

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Cicero

Clarification

Tell that to Jeffery Dahmer. Not that I disagree that more sick stuff happens in the impoverished areas. I just think that you are letting suburbanites off the hook. Just like everyone else.......I know what suburbanite kids do.
Never heard of the football team rapists? Not to be cliche but.......

I was raised in a suburban area and it is not even close to as bad as urban areas. Yes, there will be a be a few sick kids in suburban areas but those are extremely rare while crime in urban areas is more common. Suburban kids do not have the social motivation to pull any of that shit.


Don't we have a law like "No cruel or unnecessary punishment"? Torturing the victims isn't going to fix anything, it is just going to show who has the bigger cock. These kids should be punished greatly but to torture them to make yourself feel better is still extremely sick disturbing and pointless.

That's why all the serial killers and mass murderers come from impoverished areas, right Peirce?

[DanaC]

I think people are confused between Justified Anger on the behalf of a fellow human being and sickness.

Or maybe people are confused between 'justice' and enraged vengeance.

Exactly, justice is never vengeance and vengeance is never justice.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Cicero

I am done monopolizing this thread though....I can be such a harpy...........

Not at all, you have expressed legitimate points.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Don't we have a law like "No cruel or unnecessary punishment"?

It's unusual punishment, which means different from what society normally hands out. Society determines what the punishment should be. At one time everyone convicted of capital crimes was shot or hung. We've unfortunately gotten away from that, but we could change that and still stay within the Constitutional restriction on "unusual".

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Or maybe people are confused between 'justice' and enraged vengeance.

Well that doesn't include me because I already said I thought that woman and her son deserve vengeance.
Rage can also be justified.
If I think of this happening to someone close to me, i'm sure i'd still want vengeance.
What about you?
What if it were you and your son? (if you have one, whatever) If it were me I'd take vengeance over a false sense of justice any day.

Those kids will be sitting in the can for 10 years and getting out on good behavior. No matter what verbiage we use and how "confused" we are. This happens over and over like I said earlier, and very often in Florida. When something like this happens to you- let me know, and come back to me and define "justice" again.

[DanaC]

When something like this happens to you- let me know, and come back to me and define "justice" again.

Yeah. You're right, I've never been gangraped and forced to fellate my own son. I am assuming you also haven't experienced this. Neither of us have experienced that specific crime, both of us are capable of imagining how we may respond/feel/suffer or seek vengeance. I am sure, if I suffered that, I'd personally want to kill them. Which is why their sentence/punishment, shouldn't be up to me, but should be up to an objective legal system. That way, no possibility of delivering vengeance via the justice system.

Either the judicial system is there to ensure justice, or it's there to provide vengeance. Individual victims may seek vengeance, but society, I believe, should provide justice.

[xoxoxoBruce]

The victim and justice system don't don't have to disagree, however.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

That's why all the serial killers and mass murderers come from impoverished areas, right Peirce?

No, that is why there is more crime in impoverished areas and why those crimes are more severe.

Mass murders are something completely different. Those guys are most likely insane or very messed up while those kids probably knew exactly what they were doing.

It's unusual punishment

Oops, that is what I meant.

[Radar]

Actually the term is "Cruel AND unusual punishment". If we gave all murderers the death penalty via hand grenade thrown in their cell and all rapists the punishment of having their junk cut chewed off by rabid wolverines, some could call it cruel but it would not be cruel and unusual and would therefore not violate the 8th amendment.

[Undertoad]

Thankfully it is the court's interpretation and not yours that counts.