Do You Own a Gun?

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Radar

You've proven nothing other than your own ignorance of what rights are. Our rights don't come from society and can't be taken away by society. We are born with our rights and our rights are universal and the same regardless of what "society" we happen to live in. If "society" violates our rights, it doesn't mean that we don't have those rights. It doesn't matter if "society" recognizes rights, they still exist.

We are born with the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Part of life is defending that life by any means necessary. Any claims by "society" to the contrary are irrelevant. Any claims that we don't have rights is laughable and ludicrous.

Society has no rights. Society is nothing but a collection of individuals and as such, it may have no more powers than we, as individuals, have to grant to it. Society has no legitimate powers over those of a single individual.

It is like talking to a religious fundamentalist.
"Prove to me that God exists"
"It says so in The Bible."

"Prove to me that rights exist"
"it says so in the constitution."

Once again, we are not born with rights because they are human made. You have said before that animals don't have rights but we do. That implies that we are somewhat better than animals which is also laughable to anyone that knows anything about biology. You said that human rights came with the first human. You clearly don't understand evolution because species are constantly changing to fit in with their environments so there isn't a changing point.

It is like saying when does a boy become a man. There is no point when it happens, you have to put an artificial time on it. You would have to do the same thing if you wanted rights to pop out of nowhere.

Also, you are just changing definitions to fit YOUR perspective on how we should live. You guys are turning into brainwashed fundies.

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Man that was backward.
You just can't get it.
Freedom, remember?
The right to be free.
We own guns because we have the right to be free... we force nothing on others.
You are perfectly free not to own a gun.
Our way we both live as we like.

You misunderstood me. You are forcing the idea that everyone has a right to own guns when it is a local social right instead of universal. If a society says that you don't have a right to own guns and are perfectly happy in living that way, you are saying they are wrong and should change.

We have the right to be free? That is too broad to be used in an argument because freedom encompasses basically everything. The thought that you can do anything you want is ridiculous and the irony of social restraints is enormous.

[Radar]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

It is like talking to a religious fundamentalist.
"Prove to me that God exists"
"It says so in The Bible."

"Prove to me that rights exist"
"it says so in the constitution."

Once again, we are not born with rights because they are human made. You have said before that animals don't have rights but we do. That implies that we are somewhat better than animals which is also laughable to anyone that knows anything about biology. You said that human rights came with the first human. You clearly don't understand evolution because species are constantly changing to fit in with their environments so there isn't a changing point.

It is like saying when does a boy become a man. There is no point when it happens, you have to put an artificial time on it. You would have to do the same thing if you wanted rights to pop out of nowhere.

Also, you are just changing definitions to fit YOUR perspective on how we should live. You guys are turning into brainwashed fundies.


You misunderstood me. You are forcing the idea that everyone has a right to own guns when it is a local social right instead of universal. If a society says that you don't have a right to own guns and are perfectly happy in living that way, you are saying they are wrong and should change.

We have the right to be free? That is too broad to be used in an argument because freedom encompasses basically everything. The thought that you can do anything you want is ridiculous and the irony of social restraints is enormous.

Human rights existed before there were human beings. We alone have rights because we alone have the level of sentience to have DISCOVERED those rights. Note the fact that I didn't say we CREATED rights.

Humans didn't create rights; we DISCOVERED them in much the same way we DISCOVERED gravity. Both gravity and natural rights are part of natural law. Both are equally immutable and undeniable. Neither of them can be voted, bought, sold, given, or taken away.

We don't have rights because the Constitution says so. We'd have rights without any Constitution, without any government, and without any "society". We are BORN with them. They are as self-evident, tangible, and real as the presence of oxygen.

I did not say human rights came with the first human. You asked when the first human being got their rights, and I said when the first human was born. The rights already existed, but a human didn't get those rights until a human was born.

I'm not changing my definitions. I've been perfectly clear, logical, reasonable, and unlike you...sane in everything I've said and I've never contradicted anything else I've said.

Society doesn't dictate rights. Society does not exist. Only individuals do. A collection of a hundred million people has no more rights than a single person and has no legitimate authority to prevent a single person from exercising their rights.

"If mankind minus one were of one opinion, then mankind is no more justified in silencing the one than the one - if he had the power - would be justified in silencing mankind."

- John Stewart Mill

You say the right to be free is too broad. Here's a very clear definition of what we have the right to do and it has laser accuracy...

We have the right to do ANYTHING we want as long as our actions don't PHYSICALLY harm, endanger, or infringe upon the person, property, or equal rights of non-consenting others.

Your denial of universal human rights is akin to denying that gravity exists. Your claims that rights are a human social construct are so laughable and idiotic there hasn't been a word invented for this stupidity yet. This is why you're a joke to everyone on this board.