I Smell a Rat

richlevy · 12-03-2006, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tonchi

I consider the Catholic Church to be a huge part of the problem with the Philippines, which is sinking into the bottomless cesspool of ignorance and corruption while the Church praises the country for its "piety and religious devotion".

I think it's a little bit of 'chicken and egg'. People sunk in poverty and ignorance have a tendency to grasp at religion. This does not mean that religion promotes ignorance, or that intelligent people don't also find a need for religion. It's just that middle and upper class individuals may have less of a need to turn over aspects of their life to religious control, accepting religion as an advisor and partner and not a master.

Pangloss62 · 12-03-2006, 02:03 PM

Holy Christoli!

That was a great synopsis, Tonchi.

Keep up the good work and analysis. We need more people like you. Yours was a macro analysis of religion; succinct but thorough.

My sister lives and works in Spain. I'm sure she would enjoy this discourse.

Griff · 12-03-2006, 08:13 PM

Italy

P- I cannot pretend to be a "great" Catholic. For our own reasons, we don't use artificial birth control if that's going to be your criteria. Your education by inflexible Jesuits is a major impediment to understand the flexibility of beliefs contained within the Church. The Jesuits, smart as they are, are only one small organization within the Church and are not called the Pope's lawyers for nothing. If the Pope wants progressives and sceptics out, he could start excommunicating folks right now. Like I said, I'm not the guy to have this argument with, my beliefs are my own and they are changing, but it seems you want it both ways. You hate the Church for being reactionary but when folks in it want to work for progress, you want them out.

Tonchi · 12-03-2006, 08:39 PM

Don't get me wrong, I believe in religion as a positive influence on our personal lives. But when ANY religion, whether Catholic, Mormon, Islam, or Communist takes over the governance of a people, In my opinion things go to hell rather than to heaven.

Whether your sister in Spain would be interested in my analysis is moot, the Spanish have become considerably more cynical and secular in the last half-century. The colonies they formed were poisoned by the legacy left them by Spain of the 1500s through 1700s, today is a different world.

12-03-2006, 02:03 PM	#2
Pangloss62 Lecturer Join Date: May 2006 Location: Atlanta Posts: 768	Tonchi Holy Christoli! That was a great synopsis, Tonchi. Keep up the good work and analysis. We need more people like you. Yours was a macro analysis of religion; succinct but thorough. My sister lives and works in Spain. I'm sure she would enjoy this discourse. __________________ Things are never as good, or bad, as they seem.

12-03-2006, 08:13 PM	#3
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	Italy P- I cannot pretend to be a "great" Catholic. For our own reasons, we don't use artificial birth control if that's going to be your criteria. Your education by inflexible Jesuits is a major impediment to understand the flexibility of beliefs contained within the Church. The Jesuits, smart as they are, are only one small organization within the Church and are not called the Pope's lawyers for nothing. If the Pope wants progressives and sceptics out, he could start excommunicating folks right now. Like I said, I'm not the guy to have this argument with, my beliefs are my own and they are changing, but it seems you want it both ways. You hate the Church for being reactionary but when folks in it want to work for progress, you want them out. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

12-03-2006, 08:39 PM	#4
Tonchi Victim of gravity Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Hiding in plain sight Posts: 1,412	Don't get me wrong, I believe in religion as a positive influence on our personal lives. But when ANY religion, whether Catholic, Mormon, Islam, or Communist takes over the governance of a people, In my opinion things go to hell rather than to heaven. Whether your sister in Spain would be interested in my analysis is moot, the Spanish have become considerably more cynical and secular in the last half-century. The colonies they formed were poisoned by the legacy left them by Spain of the 1500s through 1700s, today is a different world. __________________ Everything you've ever heard about Fresno is true.

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