RIP John Paul II

[Radar]

Originally Posted by Beestie

Sometimes, when you try to make someone look small, it backfires. Think of it as a midget boomerang.

In this case, you may be speaking from experience. The pope was just a Polish man named Karol Wojtyla. Nothing more, nothing less. He was of no more importance than me, or you, or anyone else. He was a decent person who tried to improve relations in the middle-east, but who clung to ignorant and old ideas such as telling those in the church they can't use protection while having sex. He deserves no more or less respect than I do or you do.

[Troubleshooter]

Radar, as a non-theist I am forced to agree with you on the particulars of religion but are you truly so militantly egalitarian as to believe that what you have accomplished in your life is anything nearing the magnitude of what he has?

[Radar]

What do you think he's accomplished? He spoke to both sides of the dispute in Israel and supported human rights. He only got to do the former because he was elected to a high position (as a dark horse) and anyone would do the second. Being elected by a select group of bishops and cardinals isn't much of an accomplishment to me. In fact I'd say being elected by millions is much harder.

I've been elected to the executive committee of the state of California Libertarian Party. Not much of an accomplishment, but I was elected by more people than him.

Also, I haven't been living with servants catering to my every desire. I haven't been coddled, and cared for. I've actually had to earn a living instead of living in luxury at the expense of others and I've also supported others. I've travelled to more countries than he has and I speak the same number of languages he did.

So in answer to your question, I'd say yes I am that egalitarian. If anything, I'd say I'm more accomplished because I've worked for everything I have.

[Troubleshooter]

Ah, just making sure...

[lookout123]

yes radar. i can see how getting elected to a regional position in a "3rd party" is on the level with rising to the level of cardinal and then being elected by one's peers to be the 264th pope in 2000 years is the same. exactly the same.

exactly when did the Soviets decide you were important enough to assassinate?

and no i'm not catholic, so i don't believe he was any more infallible than any other man but only an idiot would make the statements you do and expect to be taken seriously.

[Trilby]

uh--Radar--are we to believe that you believe you are MORE or AS accomplished as the late Pope? Wow. Your megalomania knows no bounds. Really. How do you suppose? I don't see you influencing global policy anywhere.

[Radar]

yes radar. i can see how getting elected to a regional position in a "3rd party" is on the level with rising to the level of cardinal and then being elected by one's peers to be the 264th pope in 2000 years is the same. exactly the same.

Rising to the level of cardinal? All that takes is sticking around. What do you think it requires to "rise" to the level of cardinal? Just being a priest long enough would get you to that level. What number of pope he is in what number of years is completely irrelevant. If I made my own religion and called myself the pope of it, I'd be the only pope in the history of the world. I'm not impressed with any position within any religion.

exactly when did the Soviets decide you were important enough to assassinate?

At the same time they decided the pope was important enough to assassinate. In otherwords, the Soviets never tried to assassinate the pope. One individual tried, but he wasn't sent by the Soviets and if you claim otherwise you're even more stupid than we all thought. Also, since when does having someone try to kill you make you important?

and no i'm not catholic, so i don't believe he was any more infallible than any other man but only an idiot would make the statements you do and expect to be taken seriously.

No, only an idiot would would make such a claim about what I said. And this means you...idiot! I am very serious, and every single thing I've said is true.

uh--Radar--are we to believe that you believe you are MORE or AS accomplished as the late Pope? Wow. Your megalomania knows no bounds. Really. How do you suppose? I don't see you influencing global policy anywhere.

Wow, are you really this stupid or are you just acting? I am indeed as accomplished or even more accomplished as the pope. By all means tell me what he's done on his own without the church that makes him so accomplished. Being selected by a bunch of cardinals isn't a major accomplishment, so what do you have?

Also, the fact that I consider myself the equal or better of any human on earth (equal to the good and better than the bad) who has ever lived or who ever will does not make me a megalomaniac. It makes me a man. I am a man and he is a man. He is nothing more. The difference is I make my own way and I don't live off the efforts of others. I earn my own living. I don't surround myself with an organization that has tortured and murdered hundreds of thousands if not millions of people over the years and which has trillions of dollars worth of treasures (some of which was obtained by people in third world nations) and which promotes charity without using any of that treasure to help those people.

I think the pope was a good man. He had a good heart and wanted to do the right thing. He didn't always do the right thing, but he tried. If they had dressed up another man in the funny hat, he'd have done the same things. The political office of pope has historical significance, but the man was not that accomplished. He stayed in the church long enough to move up in the ranks and he was politically saavy enough to get elected by a relatively few cardinals.

[OnyxCougar]

He had something you don't: humility... that makes him more of a man than you, Radar.

[Griff]

Radar, maybe this will help. A classical liberal on the Pope.

[Happy Monkey]

Well, he did believe he could make infallible judgements...

[Radar]

He claimed he was the voice of god on earth and he could tell everyone else how to live their lives. That doesn't sound like humility to me. I fight so that people can make their own decisions about how they should run their own lives. Also, I happen to have humility regardless of your personal opinion. I admit I'm wrong when I am and I don't claim to be anything I'm not. I take credit for my own accomplishments and not those of others. The pope is attributed for writing many things that were written by his staff. I'm a decent man, but not a perfect man just like the Pope.

[Pie]

JPII did many good things for the world, in a political sense, I suppose. But the one thing I can't ever forgive him for is the Church's stance on contraception. The human race is busy drowning in our own numbers, and he had a chance to do what is right for our species -- and didn't.
I don't think it's possible to forgive a failure of leadership of that magnitude.
- Pie

[lookout123]

i don't agree with the theological stance the catholic church holds on many issues, which makes sense since i am not catholic.

radar, i wasn't talking about anyone being a better man than you. this was about the importance and influence of one man on the world.

i have seen the light and i now understand that you have done things the pope hasn't. hell, the pope never got a letter from some director's lawyer allowing HIM to borrow a name for his hot dog cart.

radar, the things you say do more to hinder your cause and party than they could ever help it. do you realize that there are an awful lot of conservatives that agree with many of the basic tenets of the LP, but when we hear some of the proponents of this party speak it is an immediate turn off. there is no way in hell i would associate my name with the LP, just because of the BS (like this) that is part of the way you try to promote yourselves.

to be fair i feel the same way about the other parties. i will never be a member of a party that thinks Tom DeLay or Ted Kennedy qualify as leaders... hey, lookee there radar! you are important on the national scene - you, just like DeLay and Kennedy have managed to turn people away from your party.

[OnyxCougar]

I don't know, 1 billion catholics all over the world thought he was good enough to talk to their God for them, and tell them his take on their God's word.

But Radar is on a 3rd party committee for California, one state of 50 in one country out of hundreds.

But you know, that's the same thing. [/sarcasm]

[jaguar]

didn't you hear him onyx, it's not the same, it's better.