Wanted: Appliance / household wiring experts

I have a crazy household mystery that's bugging me, and because we have so many clever, creative "how to design it/make it/fix it" types in our midst who love figuring out what makes things tick, I humbly bring this mystery to you and ask for your insight. :)

Note that there are several bits of evidence to consider. Here we go . . .

[INDENT]1. I left the house to do two pet sitting jobs around 3:15 this afternoon. I returned at about 4:40. When I opened the front door, I could smell hot wiring and there was an electronic or appliance buzzer screaming somewhere in the house. I raced into the kitchen to find my huge, ancient microwave oven in full coronary arrest. The machine was on, full throttle, and multiple lights on the keypad were lit; none of them would work to my touch, though.

I yanked the power cord from the outlet and opened the oven door. It was very hot in there, but nothing had caught fire. I left the door open until the whole thing cooled off. Then I plugged it in and tested it. Seems to work fine.

[INDENT]1a. This microwave - an "MGA Mitsubishi Electric, Magnatronic Range" - is approximately 50 years old. I only use it to defrost food, because my modern (much smaller) microwave insists on knowing how much the food weighs, and then shutting down every minute or two to force me to turn the food around in the oven for even thawing, and then un-pause it. Fuck that shit. My old MGA defrosts like a champ and it don't need a helping hand every few minutes to do its friggin' job, FFS.

I searched everywhere for a photo of this microwave - this was the closest I got. Note that my machine doesn't have the programmable recipe card option.

[/INDENT]

2. My kitchen garbage can sits at the base of a counter about three feet from the microwave discussed above. The can was dumped over and rummaged through; obviously my lunatic kitten did this (little fucker). The question is, could he have jumped on the counter and touched the microwave keypad which caused it to beep and light up and begin cooking, which in turn scared the cat, which jumped off the counter, knocking over the garbage can? Or is the trash-digging cat completely unrelated to the microwave meltdown?

3. After setting things to rights in the kitchen, I walked down the hall to my bedroom and noticed that my digital clock on my night stand was flashing on and off. It does this when the electricity goes out, even if it's just a very brief hiccup in the power.

Walked through the house to reset my other clocks. The only other clock that needed to be reset was an identical digital clock in the living room that sits next to the TV. The stove clock and the clock for the more modern microwave (above the stove) were both correct. These two clocks only ever need to be reset if the power is off for more than 60 seconds or so. [/INDENT]

So. Did my elderly microwave just fritz out on its own? Did the power blip out for a second and cause the microwave to spaz out? Did the overheated microwave (who knows HOW long it was going at full blast?!) cause the house power to short out? Did the cat set off the microwave which blipped out the power? Was it aliens?

Any and all ideas are welcome!

I hope you're unplugging the microwave; or, have it plugged into a power bar with a switch where you can turn the power off before you leave the house now.

I'm unsure of the relevance of the garbage can; unless, you have a pet that can get on top of it and claw at the microwave control panel.

ETA: A lot more info was added to the OP since I posted this. I wouldn't continue to use that microwave.

I wouldn't leave that plugged in. Period.

Where is your kitchen garbage can normally, in relation to the microwave?

Do you use scented garbage bags?

oh and buy a new microwave. i know you like the older, "reliable" stuff but really, this is technology that is still improving and not super expensive. Why risk it?

OOOPS! I hit the wrong button early in my narrative, and accidentally posted it. Unfortunately, I was far from finishing it. SORRY!

Meanwhile you all came up with some great info and questions! Please reread the original post to see if any of the additional info helps...

ETA: It's unplugged now, and will stay that way. ;)

Also:

defrosting what? You want easy? put it in a ziplock and dump it in a bowl of hot tap water.

...and if it's really old, unlikely the buttons are sensitive enough for a cat to activate. could have been something caused by a powercut..... but dude, dump it

monster;1026977 wrote:

defrosting what? You want easy? put it in a ziplock and dump it in a bowl of hot tap water.

Usually frozen meat. I do the hot tap water thing for small things that need defrosting, but a hunk of meat needs a bit more than that.

Do not continue to use that microwave. Throw it away immediately.

Think about it this way: even if it was caused by an errant power flicker, or a cat's stray paw, those situations could happen again in the future. What's more, if you have an electrician look at the internal wiring, the only way you'll know for sure if the repair worked is if ten years go by and your house still hasn't burned down. If you're wrong, you'll find out the hard way--and if it happens at night, you could die from smoke and carbon monoxide inhalation before you ever have a chance to wake up to see the danger.

Your life and home are not worth saving $60 on a new microwave.

Power outages can be preceded by power surges and the old microwave may no longer be able to handle the surges even though the amperage rating for the house wiring and circuit breakers/fuses can.

monster;1026978 wrote:

...and if it's really old, unlikely the buttons are sensitive enough for a cat to activate. could have been something caused by a powercut..... but dude, dump it

The buttons are still very touch (not press) sensitive. Until today, the only problem it's had is a sticky press bar to open the door.

As for my cat, I can't rule out his pawing the touch pads. There are freakin' cat prints all up and down my fridge, oven door, and dishwasher. They all have black reflective surfaces (just like the microwave), and the stupid cat thinks there's another cat in there. He does the same thing when he sees his reflection in a window. Cat prints everywhere. I once found cat prints up and down my bathroom mirror. :D

Clodfobble;1026980 wrote:

Do not continue to use that microwave. Throw it away immediately.

Think about it this way: even if it was caused by an errant power flicker, or a cat's stray paw, those situations could happen again in the future. What's more, if you have an electrician look at the internal wiring, the only way you'll know for sure if the repair worked is if ten years go by and your house still hasn't burned down. If you're wrong, you'll find out the hard way--and if it happens at night, you could die from smoke and carbon monoxide inhalation before you ever have a chance to wake up to see the danger.

Your life and home are not worth saving $60 on a new microwave.

*pout* You're right, of course, but shit. :(

And it's not about the money; it's about stupid new stuff with stupid programming. Does anyone make a microwave these days that doesn't force you to fuck with defrosting food every 60 seconds?

sexobon;1026981 wrote:

Power outages can be preceded by power surges and the old microwave may no longer be able to handle the surges even though the amperage rating for the house wiring and circuit breakers/fuses can.

Ah. Now this makes perfect sense to me. I was sure there was a house wiring component to this mystery. Thank you! :)

Glinda;1026979 wrote:

Usually frozen meat. I do the hot tap water thing for small things that need defrosting, but a hunk of meat needs a bit more than that.

no, it doesn't. Just more water changes
.

Clodfobble;1026980 wrote:

Do not continue to use that microwave. Throw it away immediately.

Think about it this way: even if it was caused by an errant power flicker, or a cat's stray paw, those situations could happen again in the future. What's more, if you have an electrician look at the internal wiring, the only way you'll know for sure if the repair worked is if ten years go by and your house still hasn't burned down. If you're wrong, you'll find out the hard way--and if it happens at night, you could die from smoke and carbon monoxide inhalation before you ever have a chance to wake up to see the danger.

Your life and home are not worth saving $60 on a new microwave.

this.

monster;1026986 wrote:

no, it doesn't. Just more water changes
.

Yeah, I know! I'm whining because I don't want to have to tend to my defrosting food every few minutes. I'm a spoiled, stupid old lady and fuck this newfangled programmed crap!

/rant :rolleyes: :p:

Glinda;1026984 wrote:

*pout* You're right, of course, but shit. :(

And it's not about the money; it's about stupid new stuff with stupid programming. Does anyone make a microwave these days that doesn't force you to fuck with defrosting food every 60 seconds?

yes. but..... it's better/faster if you rotate it.......

Heh. That's what he said. :D

Glinda;1026991 wrote:

Heh. That's what he said. :D

and did the rotation happen?

Oh, you betcha. ;)

Bought a Sharp in 1973, big sucker with the carousel and knobs, for almost $500. It lasted 25 years and 1 month.
Replaced it the same day with another Sharp, I think it's 1.8 cubic feet, big power, carousel, buttons for auto-defrost, auto-reheat, popcorn, potato, so easy even I can do it, Less than $150.

Plus I have a spare glass carousel plate in case I break it.
And used the carousel turntable drive with a small platform for spray painting objects 360 degrees.
You can use the unplugged one as a kitten proof bread box.

Power flicker probably caused the microwave to turn on suddenly, spooking the cat, and causing it to knock over the trash.

If the microwave seems to work fine now, I would also have a hard time tossing it. But it's the smart thing to do. You WILL get another power surge in the future.

I'm late to the game, but definitely toss the microwave. I thaw meat in the kitchen sink, that way I don't have to change the water in a small volume container.

Alternatively, if you are very confident in your diligence, you could plug it in, use it, and be sure to unplug it every time you are done. Or plug it in to a switched power strip you turn off after every use. But I don't like that power strip idea because I know that I would forget to turn it off. Unplugging is a bigger ritual you would notice not performing.

Unplugging is what I do to my table saw, and it's like locking the door when you leave the house. I do it every time. Great ritual.

Glinda;1026985 wrote:

Ah. Now this makes perfect sense to me. I was sure there was a house wiring component to this mystery.

No house wiring is involved in this mystery (if AC electric lights do not flicker or change intensity when major appliances power cycle). Posted were electrical fables invented by many who forgot to first learn how electricity works.

If you had a surge, then a microwave is damaged - no longer works. And some of other less robust appliances (ie GFCIs, clocks, central air controller, door bell) are damaged.

Not one reason is given to suspect house wiring or a surge. So those wild speculations are binned immediately. Honest replies also say why with numbers.

We even saw this once in a factory where a toxic gas (phosphine) was vented into an area of construction workers. Fortunately a bird fell dead before those construction workers got too close. That is when I was brought in.

Sometimes power does not fully turn off or on. Intermittent and quick AC offs and ons cause DC voltages to vary to intermediate voltages. (What glatt calls a power flicker.) Computers that run on 5 volts get disoriented when that voltage is below 4.8 and does not fall to zero. Then the computer can start babbling; executing code that makes no sense.

In our case, a babbling computer powered open every valve venting a large tank of toxic gases. In your case, it simply instructed one relay to close and stay closed.

Your PC is not a real time computer. So it does not need this major human safety device. That computer inside a microwave is real time. So a watchdog timer literally creates a heartbeat. If the real time computer does not issue the proper heartbeat every few milliseconds or seconds, then a watchdog timer cuts off power to everything.

But back then, despite even telling this to some people's face, some so called designers would ignore the warning and not implement that watchdog. Or would write code in a manner that even a babbling computer would still act as if functioning properly.

In short, your microwave either does not have or did not properly implement a watchdog timer. So quick AC power interruptions caused a babbling computer chip to power on the microwave with nothing to time it (power it) off.

Can we say that with certainty? No. Do you have symptoms to justify that event? Yes. Did anyone support their conclusions with the always required reasons why and perspective? Obviously not. So this is your only possible answer that has any credibility.

Back then, watchdog timers were typically separate chips provided by companies such as Dallas Semiconductor. Today, that essential human safety function is standard in all single chip computers.

And yes, this many decade old (that well understood concept) is clearly something new to you and others. So understand it will require at least three (or more) rereads. And maybe only after asking a few questions.

So you are saying the power fluctuation caused it, and the microwave has always had this problem? It's as good today as the day it was new. But it will likely happen again if the power fluctuates in the same way in the future?

Glinda;1026984 wrote:

And it's not about the money; it's about stupid new stuff with stupid programming. Does anyone make a microwave these days that doesn't force you to fuck with defrosting food every 60 seconds?

One with a turntable might not?

Glinda;1026985 wrote:

sexobon wrote:

Power outages can be preceded by power surges and the old microwave may no longer be able to handle the surges even though the amperage rating for the house wiring and circuit breakers/fuses can.

Ah. Now this makes perfect sense to me. I was sure there was a house wiring component to this mystery. Thank you! :)

tw;1027044 wrote:

No house wiring is involved in this mystery (if AC electric lights do not flicker or change intensity when major appliances power cycle). Posted were electrical fables invented by many who forgot to first learn how electricity works. ...

If you read what was written, with comprehension, you'll see that no one was blaming house wiring for the malfunction.

tw;1027044 wrote:

… If you had a surge, then a microwave is damaged - no longer works. And some of other less robust appliances (ie GFCIs, clocks, central air controller, door bell) are damaged. ...

False. That's only if there's a large surge:

Why worry about power surges?

Your home is filled with items susceptible to power surges. Anything containing a microprocessor is especially vulnerable - the tiny digital components are so sensitive that even a 10-volt fluctuation can disrupt proper functioning.

Microprocessors are found in hundreds of consumer items, including TVs, cordless phones, computers, microwaves, and even seemingly "low-tech" large appliances like dishwashers, washing machines and refrigerators.

Large power surges, as with a lightning strike, can cause instantaneous damage, "frying" circuits and melting plastic and metal parts. Fortunately, these types of power surges are rare.

tw;1027044 wrote:

… Not one reason is given to suspect house wiring or a surge. So those wild speculations are binned immediately. ...

Again, no one said they suspected house wiring was the cause. As for there being no reason to suspect a surge - False:

Internal power surges

More than half of household power surges are internal. These happen dozens of times of day, usually when devices with motors start up or shut off, diverting electricity to and from other appliances.

Refrigerators and air conditioners are the biggest culprits, but smaller devices like hair dryers and power tools can also cause problems.

External power surges

An external power surge, stemming from outside your home, is most commonly caused by a tree limb touching a power line, lightning striking utility equipment or a small animal getting into a transformer.

Surges can also occur when the power comes back on after an outage, and can even come into your home through telephone and cable TV lines.

And then there's a potential problem from cumulative damage that can make a very old microwave more susceptible to a small external surge before or after a power outage:

Low-level power surges won't melt parts or blow fuses, but they can cause "electronic rust," gradually degrading internal circuitry until it ultimately fails.

Small surges won't leave any outward evidence, so you may not even be aware they're happening - even though they may occur dozens or even hundreds of times each day.

Obviously, tw has acquired "electronic rust," which gradually degraded his internal circuitry and it is ultimately failing … not one brain left in his poor old head.

glatt;1027052 wrote:

So you are saying the power fluctuation caused it, and the microwave has always had this problem?

Not any power fluctuations. A list of different anomalies under that category are many. This one type fluctuation is why a watchdog with voltage monitor exists. And why some computers and games also have a safety lockout feature.

Other speculated anomalies (ie a surge) do not explain those symptoms. For example, if power on was created by a surge, then that oven would remain always powered when plugged in. Fact that it worked normal after power cycling implies a problem often found with real time single chip computers of that vintage. And not something created by a mythical surge.

If a cat started it, then that microwave eventually timed out. Or a thermal safety monitor cut off power. Unlikely a cat can just happen to hit a right sequence of keys. Or even has sufficient paw strength to depress those keys.

Provided was enough information to provide relevant facts - to define the defect. Much later comes a solution - which typically does not involve trashing a microwave.

Little facts, such as the above requested behavior of incandescent bulbs, is significant information. Also the state of other household appliances would say more.

BTW, when one only understands how to 'wreck shit', then even "electronic rust" is proof that Martians are conspiring with the Rovers to kill us all using our microwave ovens. Since extremists tell us those also used processor chips of same vintage design. He would accomplish more writing for Marvel.

Ridiculous, just a load of sundowner gibberish.

Honest posters cite sources. I cited a source. Without sources and numbers the above irrational explanation can be binned. A senile old man like tw, with an extensive history of disseminating misinformation, is not a credible source. Why does he not post credible sources? What is he hiding? Why does no one corroborate his fantastic assertions that his and only his explanation should be accepted with no credible sources cited? Because, he's hiding behind lies and he can't dazzle with brilliance so he tries to baffle with bullshit. Smoke and mirrors. Tw is a moral enemy of all honest Americans.

Glinda;1026985 wrote:

Ah. Now this makes perfect sense to me. I was sure there was a house wiring component to this mystery. Thank you! :)

tw;1027044 wrote:

No house wiring is involved in this mystery (if AC electric lights do not flicker or change intensity when major appliances power cycle).

No. House wiring absolutely DOES explain a lot to me, because of the clocks that needed to be reset and the clocks that didn’t. I’m thinking that there was a very brief (a few seconds) power surge – either before or after a brief actual outage (less than 60 seconds) – and that caused my poor, elderly microwave with its ancient hardware and software features to finally short/spaz out. If the above is true, the new, digital clocks needed to be reset because they’re new and very sensitive to any super-brief outage, meanwhile my 20-year-old stovetop and microwave clocks didn’t need to be reset because they can withstand and have consistently withstood outages of less than 60 seconds without having to be reset.

tw;1027044 wrote:

If you had a surge, then a microwave is damaged - no longer works. And some of other less robust appliances (ie GFCIs, clocks, central air controller, door bell) are damaged.

That makes no sense at all. I’ve lived here 14 years. The previous owners (the people who built this place) lived here for 6 years. That means the newer built-in microwave and all the other kitchen appliances are 20 years old. If what you claim is true, and a power surge kills microwaves, HVAC controllers, and doorbells, why do my newer microwave, my HVAC controller, and my doorbell still work perfectly? Why haven't the zillions of power surges over the past 50 years caused my old microwave to die before now?

tw;1027044 wrote:

Not one reason is given to suspect house wiring or a surge. So those wild speculations are binned immediately.

Nah. It’s winter here in SW Washington. There’s weather out there – freezing temps, snow, rain, hail, sleet, and occasional, significant wind. I live in a rural area not far from the Columbia River Gorge (LOTS of wind) with above-ground power lines and forested land for miles around. Trees/branches fall onto power lines all the time.

sexobon;1027069 wrote:

If you read what was written, with comprehension, you'll see that no one was blaming house wiring for the malfunction.

Correct. I’m certain the house wiring didn’t cause the microwave to power on. I said that the house wiring was a component of why the microwave powered on. The reason I believe this? It has to do with which clocks needed to be reset, and which clocks didn’t.

sexobon;1027069 wrote:

And then there's a potential problem from cumulative damage that can make a very old microwave more susceptible to a small external surge before or after a power outage.

Exactly. Simple common sense.

tw;1027091 wrote:

Fact that it worked normal after power cycling implies a problem often found with real time single chip computers of that vintage. And not something created by a mythical surge.

I am not an electrician, but a 50-year-old microwave will obviously have outdated computer chips and software. And even if the chips were originally designed to handle power surges (after all, power surges did exist in the 1970s, so this would presumably have been taken into design considerations), 50 years of handling power surges surely weakened whatever hardware and software design features were originally in place. Again, I’m not an electrician; this just seems like common sense to me.

tw;1027091 wrote:

If a cat started it, then that microwave eventually timed out. Or a thermal safety monitor cut off power. Unlikely a cat can just happen to hit a right sequence of keys. Or even has sufficient paw strength to depress those keys.

The cat may or may not be part of the equation. I merely brought it into the mix because I don’t think it can realistically be eliminated. The cat DOES paw at anything reflective (such as the front of the microwave). As for the microwave control panel, there is nothing to “depress” other than the big press bar that opens the door; the control panel is touch sensitive and has never failed in any way. Just a light touch and it engages.

tw;1027091 wrote:

BTW, when one only understands how to 'wreck shit', then even "electronic rust" is proof that Martians are conspiring with the Rovers to kill us all using our microwave ovens.

I KNEW it! :eek:

Glinda;1026972 wrote:

Also:

I am not 100% certain, but, I think my best friend has that exact same microwave.

I'll have a looksee/picturetake today.

If I don't forget.

ETA: Yours is in infinitely better condition.

Glinda;1027099 wrote:

House wiring absolutely DOES explain a lot to me, because of the clocks that needed to be reset and the clocks that didn’t. I’m thinking that there was a very brief (a few seconds) power surge – either before or after a brief actual outage (less than 60 seconds) – and that caused my poor, elderly microwave with its ancient hardware and software features to finally short/spaz out. If the above is true, the new, digital clocks needed to be reset because they’re new and very sensitive to any super-brief outage,

Digital is typically the most robust of appliances. Conclusion (myth) about 'sensitive' is promoted by many educated only by propaganda - advertising (such as Sexobon's surge citations that are blantant lies).

Listing specifically what each appliance did provides critically essential facts necessary for a better answer.

Notice which devices contain circuits to remain powered longer. Even your computer has a specification for how long it remains running uninterrupted with no incoming AC power. A number even stated in the original ATX Standard. And that is typically much longer in many computers.

This "uninterrupted without AC power" feature is found in all electronics and is especially necessary due to 'dirty' UPS power. Since a UPS must disconnect all power for a long time to eventually switch to battery power. They don't like layman to learn such realities. It might reduce sales.

How each item responds to an outage (or flicker) is unique to the that design. Applies both to today's more robust electronics or to 'rumored' more sensitive electronics from 40 years ago.

Glinda;1027099 wrote:

If what you claim is true, and a power surge kills microwaves, HVAC controllers, and doorbells, why do my newer microwave, my HVAC controller, and my doorbell still work perfectly? Why haven't the zillions of power surges over the past 50 years caused my old microwave to die before now?

So many urban myths remain to unlearn. Zillions of surges exist over 50 years because scam artists sell surge protectors that do not protect from surges. Those protectors fail catastrophically even on the first surge that is too tiny to damage any other appliances. So they claim surges are happening hourly and daily. How many unprotected GFCIs have you replaced today?

All appliances contain protection superior to what plug-in protectors claim. What so many call a surge (ie 120 volts approaching or exceeding 1000 volts) is really only noise (maybe a few tens of volts. Was your microwave exposed to a 1000 volt transient? Then how many other appliances are also destroyed?

120 volt electronics (even before the IBM PC existed) were required to withstand up to 600 volts without damage. Did I mention honest people also provide perspective - numbers? Where is one reason to suspect a 1000 volt spike? Not one fact suggests a surge. And plenty of facts that say it did not happen.

A surge is rare - maybe once every seven years. In your venue, typically less often. Things that suffer from a surge are permanently damaged - are never restored by power cycling. Surges do not weaken. They destroy or they are safely consumed as if 120 volt electricity. This from one who designs, who has traced surges, restored damage, and submitted everything to design reviews. Even before a Cellar existed.

Move on to anomalies that would actually explain your symptoms. One typical example was detailed previously. But nobody can say anything more until you provide more requested information.

Neither power outage nor restoration is or creates a surge. Only the many manipulated by sales propaganda and Donald diatribes never learn that. Move on to real world knowledge.

Glinda;1027099 wrote:

I said that the house wiring was a component of why the microwave powered on. The reason I believe this? It has to do with which clocks needed to be reset, and which clocks didn’t.

Again, behavior of every clock is traceable to its internal design. Household wiring has relevance - unless you can cite something so glaring unique to explain it. If it was a surge, it was incoming on every wire.

Meanwhile, more informed conclusions are possible if behavior of each item (not just clocks) is individually listed.

What is the problem with common sense? It results in junk science IF relevant science concepts are not first learned. We all learned what must exist to have knowledge - a hypothesis and experimental evidence. Common sense without first learning basic electrical concepts means no hypothesis; is how junk science gets promoted. We all here saw this happen and watched lies be exposed even long before the invasion started. Because so many used common sense to know Saddam had WMDs. If 'common sense' conclusions have no numbers, then it is a Richard Nixon or Donald Trump type lie - a worst type.

Again, international design standards, long before an IBM PC existed, required electronics to withstand surges. As defined by so many relevant numbers - some already discussed. Stop assuming old means failure. Failure is only defined by specification numbers have been discussed and that others here ignored so as to use common sense.

Surges also do not weaken internal protection. It is called a catastrophic failure. Either that surge is harmlessly consumed just like other electricity. Or the part fails catastrophically. Lies about 'weaker with age' or 'weakened software features' were invented by others who only use emotions to be experts. Who are not thinking logically like an adult.

You did not have a surge. Your every reason to believe so was promoted by other liars who know only because they feel they are experts. And who never post required numbers with every accusation.

Again, how many other appliances were affected by a surge - a voltage approaching or exceeding 1000 volts? Move on to reality.

Yes power surges existed in the 1970s just like they do today - maybe once every seven years. A number that can vary even in the same town. You know when a surge exists. Plug-in protectors fail catastrophically on that first surge. In 1987, PC Magazine published TWICE articles on how plug-in protectors fail and then create fires. A problem that continues so often today that APC finally admitted some 15 million protectors must be removed immediately due to less than 1000 house fires directly traceable to that one protector.

How many 'surge' experts bothered to learn that reality? How many protectors in your house tried to create a fire during that assumed surge?

Electricians do not know how electricity works. Electricians are experts on what must connect to what - according to code - so that human life is not threatened. Electricians have little grasp of how a microwave works, what a protector does, or even what impedance is. None of that necessary to memorize what can connect to what. Do not confuse an electrician (a technician) with an engineer or scientist. Completely different knowledge bases. An electrician could only have a funny look if a watchdog timer or voltage supervisor was mentioned. Those basic electrical concepts are never taught to electricians.

So, what was the behavior and resulting state of all other affected and unaffected appliances? Where is behavior of incandescent bulbs reported - since basic electrical knowledge says that is a major and critically important fact.

Do you have any video games? For example, did a PS4, not powered on then but plugged in, go into a safety lockout? A critically important fact. Incandescent bulb behavior (what is relevant detailed earlier) next week and last month is also a critical fact. Including behavior of a bulb powered from that microwave's receptacle.

BTW, which year was the microwave built? Difference between 1970, 1973, 1976, and 1979 is electrically significant. An example of why facts (especially numbers) are so important for better assistance.

I believe Spielberg once wrote a famous paper about how microwave ovens and other household appliances can kill us. It was then made into a Hollywood movie called Gremlins.

I was surprised that Sexobon did not bother to cite facts from that Spielberg paper.

TLDR

All ramblings of an incoherent senile mind. No credible sources linked. Scatterbrained offshoots about Saddam Hussein, WMDs, and Richard Nixon in a discussion about a microwave. Twisted tangents into video games, surge protectors and Hollywood Movies in a discussion about a microwave. All attempted obfuscations to the self evident failure to read what was written and lack of reading comprehension. Asks leading questions after drawing conclusions in desperate search for confirmation bias responses. Dissemination of disinformation, smoke and mirrors cover-up, and general distain for honest Americans helping a fellow American out. A tragic waste of the human organism he inhabits. Tw is public enemy #666.

[ATTACH]66614[/ATTACH]

^^^WHS^^^

tw;1027144 wrote:

A surge is rare - maybe once every seven years. In your venue, typically less often. Things that suffer from a surge are permanently damaged - are never restored by power cycling.

Interesting. And yet, I've never met one person in my 60 years whose entire house full of electronics/appliances was permanently damaged by a power surge. Go figger! :rolleyes:

tw;1027144 wrote:

Household wiring has relevance

Yeah. I think I said that. ;)

Glinda;1027158 wrote:

Interesting. And yet, I've never met one person in my 60 years whose entire house full of electronics/appliances was permanently damaged by a power surge.

That sentence had a typo. It should have read

Household wiring has irrelevance - unless you can cite something so glaring unique to explain it. If it was a surge, it was incoming on every wire.

Also noted: numbers (for a surge) can vary significantly even in the same town. Geology is one major factor in creating / avoiding risk. Even a nearby transcontinental pipeline can make surge damage easier. Surges are either consumed by appliances as if electricity; or do catastrophic (permanent) damage. No reason exists to believe a surge existed.

If a surge exists, it is incoming to everything. Is everything damaged? Of course not. That surge is hunting for best connections to an outgoing path - earth ground. So everything has a surge incoming. And some (multiple) items are a best outgoing and destructive path. Their destruction is what protected other appliances. Their damage indicates that a homeowner all but invited that surge inside. How many other appliances were damaged?

Most failures (that get blamed on surges) are actually manufacturing defects. Nobody can say anything more until catastrophically destroyed internal parts are identified; the destructive incoming and outgoing path identified.

But you clearly did not have a surge - since no damaged appliances are identified. And since surges never create what was observed in that microwave. Move on to other far more likely suspects.

Again, to say more, provide that information. No honest recommendation is possible until a problem is first confirmed.

Not even identified is that microwave's design year - 1970, 1973, 1976, or 1979 technology. Not identified are any other appliance in safety lockout mode. Even the resulting behavior of each display (clock) still is not listed. Technologies changed that much in that period - another relevant fact that remains withheld. Do you want a solution?

tw;1027161 wrote:

… another relevant fact that remains withheld. Do you want a solution?

Typical tw MO, blame the person asking for help claiming they're withholding information that supports his senile interpretations and conclusions; then, dangle a carrot in front of them to keep them engaged to feed his narcissism. When is this enemy of decency ever going to link credible sources to back his diatribe … never of course because credible ones don't exist. Already posted was a reliable source of information which senile tw ignores. In his delusional state, narcissistic tw believes he's so much smarter than everyone else here that if he repeats a lie often enough, it will become the truth for them. He thinks everyone else lacks his resolve and circular arguments will enable his delusions to prevail. Tw is the enemy of truth, justice, and the American way.

The some clocks being ok and some had to be reset could be the ok ones have a battery or large capacitor to bridge short lapses in power. The other possibility is most houses have a 220 volt service(actually 240) that comes in on two 110 volt lines. Both are used for 220 appliances, but one is used for wall outlets. In order to balance the load about half the outlets will be on one leg and half on the other. I've seen more than once one leg coming in be interrupted and the clocks needing to be reset may all be on one leg.

The Sharp carousel microwaves you don't have to turn the food, it's turning all the time. By some king of fucking magic when I open the door and set something on the platter, no mater what time I give it when the time is up that item is exactly where I put it. 30 seconds or 30 minutes or 533 seconds the item is right there. :unsure:

I just set my phaser to heavy stun and it defrosts most anything in less than a minute.

Microwave defrosting BAD!

If you are in love with the thing just leave it unplugged when you're not using it.

Don't use the microwave.
Use the oven instead.
Let's be healthy.
Fuck bread.

I see what you did there. Acknowledged and approved, sir.

:D

:lol2:

Fuck bread.

Ha!

tw;1027161 wrote:

Not even identified is that microwave's design year - 1970, 1973, 1976, or 1979 technology.

Given that I've mentioned several times that the microwave is 50 years old, and this is 2019, I'm going to go out on a limb here and say it was built in . . . let's see . . . carry the one . . . 1968 or 1969. I have no idea what year the thing was designed. A reasonable guess would be 1967 or 1968. :right:

tw;1027161 wrote:

Not identified are any other appliance in safety lockout mode. Even the resulting behavior of each display (clock) still is not listed.

I have no idea what you're going on about, and I'm perfectly ok with that. Thanks anyway. I got the answers I wanted. :thumb:

xoxoxoBruce;1027183 wrote:

The some clocks being ok and some had to be reset could be the ok ones have a battery or large capacitor to bridge short lapses in power. The other possibility is most houses have a 220 volt service(actually 240) that comes in on two 110 volt lines. Both are used for 220 appliances, but one is used for wall outlets. In order to balance the load about half the outlets will be on one leg and half on the other. I've seen more than once one leg coming in be interrupted and the clocks needing to be reset may all be on one leg.

More good info that makes sense to me. :)

xoxoxoBruce;1027183 wrote:

The Sharp carousel microwaves you don't have to turn the food, it's turning all the time. By some king of fucking magic when I open the door and set something on the platter, no mater what time I give it when the time is up that item is exactly where I put it. 30 seconds or 30 minutes or 533 seconds the item is right there. :unsure:

I've considered a microwave with a turntable, but that always makes me think that it's one more thing that could go wrong with the microwave. Also, they're difficult to clean (I used to do elder care for a guy that had a turntable microwave and cleaning it was a big pain in the arse).

As for the turntable lining up every time . . .

Glinda;1027248 wrote:

...had a turntable microwave and cleaning it was a big pain in the arse).

It's a flat piece of glass. It's no more difficult to clean than a dinner plate. It's basically a large plate.

The turntables are in-built, or built-in, I ferget which, now-a-days.

Wouldn't have a micro without one, tbh.

What is it w/microwaves and regular ovens? I bought a microwave a while back to replace one that was haunted.

The old micro thawed a pound of hamburger in about eight minutes. The new one's manual calls for 15+ minutes. Hell, I can do it that fast in a warm bowl of water!

Our regular oven was trying to burn the house down so the 'rents went out and got a new one. The old oven would preheat to 445 degrees in 4 minutes 15 seconds (I used 445 because 450 takes an extra 2 minutes 15 seconds, what's 5 degrees?:)). The new one? 12-16 minutes so far. And the new one when preheating shows the temp instead of time remaining,<--which I find more useful.

I was expecting better heating performance, especially when you consider the price: $666 and change, I shit you not.

I told them "If you'd waited a couple days, I'd have bought a used one for a couple hundred bucks. Here's a couple hundred bucks.":neutral:

And I didn't drink for week.

Gravdigr;1027249 wrote:

It's a flat piece of glass. It's no more difficult to clean than a dinner plate. It's basically a large plate.

The turntables are in-built, or built-in, I ferget which, now-a-days.

Wouldn't have a micro without one, tbh.

Not the glass plate; the thing the plate sits on. The one I had to clean had this inside it:



The old man would invariably spill shit in there (or cook it so long that it boiled over), and that shit would get beneath the plate and gunk up the little wheels of the tripod thing that held the plate. PITA!!

Ooohhhhhhh, that. Yeah I can see the pita what with the tripod and the wheels and the stuff...

Gravdigr;1027251 wrote:

Here's a couple hundred bucks.":neutral:

Gravdigr;1027252 wrote:

And I didn't drink for week.

:lol2:

Glinda;1027254 wrote:

The old man would invariably spill shit in there (or cook it so long that it boiled over), and that shit would get beneath the plate and gunk up the little wheels of the tripod thing that held the plate. PITA!!

Oh yeah, that would be a pain in the ass. I don't have that problem, the glass plate is 18" in diameter and has a lip to stop anything that does boil over. I only have spatters on the walls/ceiling/door from not covering stuff I reheat.:blush:

Gravdigr;1027251 wrote:

What is it w/microwaves and regular ovens? I bought a microwave a while back to replace one that was haunted.

The old micro thawed a pound of hamburger in about eight minutes. The new one's manual calls for 15+ minutes. Hell, I can do it that fast in a warm bowl of water!

Right? My poor deceased microwave thawed a pound of burger meat in about eight minutes, too. I've never had the patience to use the newer microwave to thaw a pound of meat, but I know it takes more than eight minutes, what with the four or five move the food and turn the machine back on interruptions that using it entails.

Mine just has a tiny little three-petaled--thing--that the big ol' plate kinda sets on, no wheels.

xoxoxoBruce;1027259 wrote:

Oh yeah, that would be a pain in the ass. I don't have that problem, the glass plate is 18" in diameter and has a lip to stop anything that does boil over. I only have spatters on the walls/ceiling/door from not covering stuff I reheat.:blush:

Paper towels and paper plates are your friends. :p:

Gravdigr;1027261 wrote:

Mine just has a tiny little three-petaled--thing--that the big ol' plate kinda sets on, no wheels.

Now that I'm looking at modern microwaves more closely, I see that fewer and fewer models have the spinning tripod mechanism that the old man's microwave had. Probably because they're a goddamned PITA to clean. :D

I forget once so after that why bother I got to clean it now anyway.
Then I'm putting something in when suddenly I have to pee NOW.
So it's either forget the covering or have to start it and wait when I get back.
The one thing I excel at is thinking up excuses for my sloth. :haha:

xoxoxoBruce;1027266 wrote:

I forget once so after that why bother I got to clean it now anyway.
Then I'm putting something in when suddenly I have to pee NOW.
So it's either forget the covering or have to start it and wait when I get back.
The one thing I excel at is thinking up excuses for my sloth. :haha:

Yeah. I'm pretty good at that, too. It's why I have a compromised 50-year-old microwave that I really don't want to get rid of. :rolleyes:

Buy a leash. Put the leash on the cat and tie the end to the microwave cord at the plug. If the microwave starts spontaneously, it'll scare the cat which will take off running and yank the plug out of the outlet. Reward the cat with a go at the garbage can.

sexobon;1027274 wrote:

Buy a leash. Put the leash on the cat and tie the end to the microwave cord at the plug. If the microwave starts spontaneously, it'll scare the cat which will take off running and yank the plug out of the outlet. Reward the cat with a go at the garbage can.

:lol: I like it!

So I'm searching around the intarweebs for the off-chance possibility that there is a modern microwave oven that doesn't require turning food over repeatedly while defrosting, and came across this:



Since when is it ok to use aluminum foil in a microwave?!?

Gravdigr;1027153 wrote:

[ATTACH]66614[/ATTACH]

Word.

Glinda;1027278 wrote:

… Since when is it ok to use aluminum foil in a microwave?!?

The aluminum foil is applied right after the defrost cycle ends. Then comes the standing time in foil.

How does one get a -10 min.'lb. [10 min./lb.] standing time? Looks like they could've used a proofreader.

The way to defrost in a microwave is at low power, I been told.

What happens is, the first little SPOT of food that defrosts now contains water, instead of ice. Microwaves work by heating water, but they don't work so well on ice; so they are now super-heating that one spot of water. Result in burger meat, one area is entirely cooked, while the rest is frozen solid. People think it's hotspots in their oven, but it's just how this works.

Answer, go low power; that way when one section melts and heats up, it gets a chance to spread that heat out more. Turn the food over (or stir) so that the hot spots get to spread heat to different places.

My research reveals that there are a few microwaves that will allow you to defrost food by weight or by a selected time. Unfortunately, they're all pretty small and don't have the best reviews.

I think I've settled on the Panasonic Microwave Oven NN-SN936B Black Countertop with Inverter Technology and Genius Sensor, 2.2 Cu. Ft, 1250W. It has a ton of outstanding reviews and I can get it $30 cheaper from Office Depot. DEAL!

It has a turntable (on a stupid wheelie tripod thing like the old man had), but since I'm not an old man with palsy, I predict it won't get that dirty and I won't have to clean it nearly as often.

It's also got a turbo defrost option (faster and more even thawing) and will defrost foods of one to two pounds without having to fiddle with it.

Happy dance!

The description says it has a 16-1/2" turntable. Mine has a 16" turntable and it extends 3-1/4" beyond the tripod. You shouldn't have any problems with the tripod staying clean unless you have a catastrophic disaster in there.

On a dying planet is it wrong to throw away a microwave because it's just been abused so long that you can't tell if it's clean?

Inverter technology

Stop making me learn stuff!:bitching:

Undertoad;1027290 wrote:

On a dying planet is it wrong to throw away a microwave because it's just been abused so long that you can't tell if it's clean?

No matter how long it's been abused, you should try to find out if it's clean or stolen before you chance throwing away somebody else's property. C'mon now, you've worked in a pawn shop. :eyebrow:

Undertoad;1027290 wrote:

On a dying planet is it wrong to throw away a microwave because it's just been abused so long that you can't tell if it's clean?

I've got a clean microwave you can have. :D

sexobon;1027280 wrote:

How does one get a -10 min.'lb. [10 min./lb.] standing time? Looks like they could've used a proofreader.

;)

sexobon;1027280 wrote:

The aluminum foil is applied right after the defrost cycle ends. Then comes the standing time in foil.

Actually, I think they're saying to cover the warmed bits of the defrosting food with a small piece of aluminum foil.

I found this:

Is it safe to use aluminum foil in a microwave oven?
Always consult the owner's manual of your microwave oven and heed the manufacturer's recommendations for the use of aluminum foil. It can be safe to use small amounts of aluminum foil in a microwave oven.

Microwaves cannot pass through metal but are absorbed by food. No food completely covered by aluminum foil or in a covered metal pan should be put in a microwave oven because food wouldn't be available to absorb the microwaves. Operating the oven empty or when the food is completely wrapped in aluminum foil can cause damage to the oven and the food won't heat.

However, small pieces of aluminum foil can be used to "shield" areas of foods, such as poultry drumsticks and wings, to prevent overcooking.

Some food packaged in foil containers can be safe to microwave. Read the package heating instructions to see if the food manufacturer has specific recommendations for microwaving the product. Because food in these containers will only heat from the top, it's best to microwave foods only 1-2 inches in depth so food near the bottom will be heated thoroughly before food on top dries and overcooks.

General Rules for Safe Use of Aluminum Foil:

[LIST]
[*]Use new, smooth foil only. Wrinkled foil can cause arcing (sparks).
[*]Cover no more than 1/4 of the food with foil.
[*]Shape the foil smoothly to the food so no edges stick out.
[*]It makes no difference which side of foil (shiny or dull) is facing out.
[*]Do not place the foil closer than one inch from the oven walls.
[*]If the microwave oven has metal shelves OR a metal turntable, don't microwave food in foil containers or metal pans, and don't let foil used for shielding touch or be close to the shelves or turntable.
[*]If you see arcing (sparks), immediately remove the foil shielding; transfer frozen food from foil container to a microwave-safe utensil.
[/LIST]

Could be!

That's just not the impression I got from the way the page in that particular manual was written. It lists the foil towards the end of the procedure, after all the turning, without specifying using foil as you go along.

Putting foil on after defrosting to retain the heat in the warm parts so it can disseminate into the cooler parts is not uncommon. To me, putting foil on during defrosting would be more trouble than it's worth since I've always gotten good results without it. YMMV.

It also seems like a subjective practice that a manufacturer could use to void warranty coverage.

New micro arrived today. *squeeeeee*





I haven't yet put it through its all of its paces - I just made a huge pot of chili last night, so I won't have anything ready to test/defrost for a few days. Will let you know how this one works as updates become available.

Suffice it to say, I'm thrilled to have a new micro that won't (or shouldn't!) asplode while I'm out taking care of other people's critters. :)

Oh that's what I have. Second incarnation, we eventually killed the first (but it took a LONG time). They're great.

Glinda;1028550 wrote:

New micro...

Swanky.

monster;1028553 wrote:

Oh that's what I have. Second incarnation, we eventually killed the first (but it took a LONG time). They're great.

Yay! Thanks for the thumbs-up vote. Do you think it'll last 50 years, like the last one? :D

Save the old one for cooking your neighbors head. :angry: :lol:

Hot Glinda's 50 yr comment made me think of my grandmothers toaster. When it quit and she got a new one she said she hoped they made better toasters by now. The old one only lasted 57 years.

:lol2:

I think we went over the toaster problem?

I think we worked out that in order to get a "better toaster than the one from 50 years ago" you need to pay Williams-Sonoma on the order of $200?

Yes. Clod did the math:

https://cellar.org/showthread.php?p=1006841&highlight=toaster#post1006841

With a name like Smeg, you know it's got to be good.

https://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/smeg-4-slice-toaster/?pkey=s%7Ctoaster%7C40

We need a new toaster. I'm thinking about it.

My toaster that I wound up getting and may be in that thread is still going strong. I highly recommend it.

And they don't make it anymore. It is a Krups. Maybe today's Krups toasters are as good as the Krups I bought ten years ago.

Glinda;1028577 wrote:

Yay! Thanks for the thumbs-up vote. Do you think it'll last 50 years, like the last one? :D

It might, if you don't have Michigan-style power outages (I think that's what did for the first one?) 50 years though! I remember our family getting its first microwave when I was at least 10, and I'm not 50 yet

xoxoxoBruce;1028579 wrote:

Save the old one for cooking your neighbors head. :angry: :lol:

HA!! :D


BTW, I just found out that a-hole neighbor's wife is about to pop out kid number eight. Dear ghod. :eyebrow:

Undertoad;1028639 wrote:

With a name like Smeg, you know it's got to be good.

https://www.williams-sonoma.com/products/smeg-4-slice-toaster/?pkey=s%7Ctoaster%7C40

We need a new toaster. I'm thinking about it.

I recommend you read the reviews first. They're not very inspiring.

The best toasters of 2019

The Best Toasters to Buy in 2019, According to Kitchen Appliance Experts

Best Toasters of 2019

Looks like Breville is the way to go.

monster;1028652 wrote:

It might, if you don't have Michigan-style power outages (I think that's what did for the first one?) 50 years though! I remember our family getting its first microwave when I was at least 10, and I'm not 50 yet

Yep, I clearly remember when my folks brought home my recently deceased microwave when I was 10. We thought we were the Jetsons!

Glinda;1028656 wrote:

BTW, I just found out that a-hole neighbor's wife is about to pop out kid number eight. Dear ghod. :eyebrow:

Probably haven't figured out what's causing it...

Old microwave prob perfect size for first crib.....

Now we're cooking!

:eek::bolt:

Gravdigr;1028662 wrote:

Probably haven't figured out what's causing it...

:D

Actually, they belong to a cult (Old Apostolic Lutheran Church) that has infested the area. One of their beliefs is that women should have as many children as their bodies will tolerate.

Read a few pages of the link above to find out how weird/awful they are. The forced childbearing is just a very small part of it; wait till you get to the discussion of how/why they tolerate child molestation within their membership. :eyebrow:

OMG. I'm so stoked about this microwave!

Yesterday, I decided to make some spaghetti and needed to thaw a pound of hot Italian sausage meat (I use sausage instead of hamburger meat - it's so delicious). I hit the Turbo Defrost button and input the weight of the meat, and holy fuck.

The entire brick of meat was thawed in roughly three minutes. :eek: And that was less time than the microwave wanted to take, because I stopped the process early to check on the meat and it was already completely thawed. Next time I have a pound of meat to thaw, I'll tell the machine that it weighs less.

Similarly, every other heating/cooking option is super fast. It's going to take me awhile to get used to how quickly this thing does its job, but I couldn't be happier with the defrost option. WOW.

:thumb:

Glinda;1028780 wrote:

(I use sausage instead of hamburger meat - it's so delicious).

I do that! Sometimes I use brat-style Italian sausages.

I just cut it out of the casing.

Glinda;1028779 wrote:

:D

Read a few pages of the link above to find out how weird/awful they are. The forced childbearing is just a very small part of it; wait till you get to the discussion of how/why they tolerate child molestation within their membership. :eyebrow:

They're not all bad, at least they practice early sex education for kids. :facepalm:

fargon;1028800 wrote:

I just cut it out of the casing.

I always remove the casing, from any kind of sausages.

Gravdigr;1028844 wrote:

I always remove the casing, from any kind of sausages.

One of the local grocery stores carries ground pork sausage in a 1 lb chunk (just like hamburger meat) - no casings to fiddle with. :thumb:

xoxoxoBruce;1028806 wrote:

They're not all bad, at least they practice early sex education for kids. :facepalm:

You are going straight to hell! :eek:













I'll be waiting for ya. ;)

All we have around here is Johnsonville links. Every once in a while Quillin's will have loose Italian sausage they make it them self's. It's Good.

fargon;1028863 wrote:

All we have around here is Johnsonville links. Every once in a while Quillin's will have loose Italian sausage they make it them self's. It's Good.

Yeah, it's kind of weird how few stores carry the Johnsonville non-link sausage. I've only ever seen it at Winco (awesome grocery store - cheap Cheap CHEAP!).

Well see that's sausage. Not a sausage.

:p:

A better sausage means nobody knows what makes a sausage. Not knowing what is inside (defines) a sausage means it tastes better.

I don't understand why it would explode, arcing, fire and flames sure, but explode?
Don't try this at home...