computer problem
jinx's vaio is effed up. it was going round and round trying to reboot, but failing. I ran the ultimate boot cd, and got it up, but there does not appear to be a C drive.
help!
does it show up in the bios setup screen?
being able to boot from cd is promising, but if you have no c drive, you definintely have a problem.
were there any symptoms leading up to the failure?
is it under warranty?
What is on the c drive that you really really want to keep? pics/docs/music/ etc. programs are replaceable, more or less, your data... less.
jinx's vaio is effed up. it was going round and round trying to reboot, but failing. I ran the ultimate boot cd, and got it up, but there does not appear to be a C drive.
Only better computer provide the hardware diagnostics on the hard drive, on a CD, and on their web site ... for free.
I you can boot the machine from a CD, then the diagnostics will load and test all hardware ... without the complications of Windows.
All manufacturers have these diagnostics. Your problem is exactly why better manufacturers provide these diagnostics. If not provided, then use another machine to burn a bootable CD (or USB stick) with the diagnostic from the disk drive manufacturer. Idea is to learn what is wrong long before trying to fix anything ... so that data is not lost and so that the problem is not made exponentially more complex.
Also available are other boot functions enabled by pressing various keys as the machine boots. Sometimes F2, F5, F8 or Del key provides a list of booting options. One possible option is verbose - to list each step the BIOS goes through to load Windows.
I have never run a Vaio so I do not know which keys enable which booting functions. Could be defective hardware. Could be a trashed boot file. Confirm the hardware is good (use diagnostics) before executing repair software such as Fixboot.
I did get it to boot using the Ultimate Boot Disc. But, when I click my computer, it only shows a B drive(952MB) and the disc..... It's like it can't see the C drive....
I assume the diagnostics are on a partition of that like they are on my HP. If I can't see the hard drive, how can I run those self diagnostics?
Jim , Recently I did a BUTT Load of updates from windows on Carols laptop ,
After it got done rebooting for the 11'dth time there was NO Dvd/Cd drive ,
I reloaded the drivers , nope , de installed the drivers , re installed them , nope ,
I thought Oh no you didnt !!!!! so a grabbed an External Dvd/cd drive I have for work , "I Know this works !!!!" thinking that the internal drive its self May have just Fell the fuck down , guess what the external drive didnt work eather,
Looking in the admin/tools/puter mangmt /device mngr
it showed that the drives were there but Neather worked , error 39 (?) and error 19
I googled this and found that there was a registry problem , some thing about Hi filters, and Low filters or sume such ,
I sorted thru the sites that wanted to charge for to fix this , and Finaly came to a concensis from posts on help forums that I needed to go into the reg edditer and eddit the settings , I googled the settings for these parts of the reg , again came to a concensis for the Equipment type, brand, Model etc,,, What My reg settings needed to be and Lo and behold it WORKED !!!!!!!
So My suggestion IS go to admin/tools/puter mangmt /device mngr
See if the drive is Present , and what error codes you have and go from there ,
OR Get a
Ball bat and Let yer INNER Viking OUT !!!!!
This makes me sad.
I don't even know what diagnostics are. Like defrag and checkdisk, or something that will help?
I assume the diagnostics are on a partition of that like they are on my HP. If I can't see the hard drive, how can I run those self diagnostics?
First you need to do what BigV recommended. If the bios can't see the drive, the diagnostics are not going to see the drive either.
Reboot the computer. Go into hardware setup (by pressing some key as it boots). Look around in the hardware setup for the hard drive info. If it sees the C drive, that's good. If it doesn't, you have serious problems - likely hardware issue with the drive.
I just re read your Last post , B drive ??? WTF !!
Most laptops have a C and D( for the back up Partition ) and E drive Now days
If you have a card reader it shows F G H , etc , for the different card slots ,
Flash drives and external HDs show After that , I J K L , etc
So this B drive has me Perplexed !!??
i don't see anything when it tries to boot. it just says starting windows...then that little green bar thing going back and forth....forever
edit: jinx says the last thing that happened was that the battery died and when she plugged it back in ....no boot.
says;
(B: ) RAMDisk
folders - PrintSpool
UBCD4 Win User Settings
(X: ) UBCD4 Windows
After you restart, you don't see a text screen before the windows startup screen?
says;
(B: ) RAMDisk
folders - PrintSpool
UBCD4 Win User Settings
(X: ) UBCD4 Windows
Have you always had a ram drive? How about the x: drive?
Something that says hit DEL to setup? Or F2?
http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/
that is what gives me B drive, zipp..
and...no no text at all when trying to reboot
A couple of web sites say that the Vaio bios key is either F1, F2, or F3 depending on the model. Try rebooting and pressing one of those keys as it reboots. You should get into the bios setup screen.
no text. Microsoft green progress thinger, then blank screen for a min, then a super quick flash of something then dead.
Check that the cable connection to the drive and motherboard are tight. Mine sometimes worked loose from vibration.
Next check the bios.
I did that last night... pressed fi and it asked me if I wanted to start vista, or press f8 for other shit. I pressed f8 and tried to get it to start in safe mode and got same results.
I did that last night... pressed fi and it asked me if I wanted to start vista, or press f8 for other shit. I pressed f8 and tried to get it to start in safe mode and got same results.
It doesn't sound like you've hit the bios screen yet. Try rebooting and pressing f2 (repeatedly). If that doesn't work try again with f3. Then Esc, then del.
If none of those work, you might want to take it out back and pound it into scrap with a sledge hammer. :D
what does bios screen look like?
Like one of these:
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=bios+screen&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=g1g-m2&aql=&oq=
It'll say something like "bios setup" or "cmos setup", maybe "hardware setup"
Once you get there, tell us what you see on the screen and we'll try to get you further.
Ok, f2 got me "windows boot manager"
Choose operating sys to start - vista is only option
to specify advanced option press f8
also, can tab to "windows memory diagnostic"
What are the options when you go to the advanced area with F8?
Jinx - I don't think you found it yet, the bios screen won't have anything to do with windows.
the memory thing ran, found no errors then tried to restart, no change
F8 - advcanced boot options
safe mode with networking
safe mode with command prompt
enable boot logging
enable low-res video (640X480)
last know good configuration (advanced) (( I tried that last night, nada))
directory services restore mode
debugging mode
disable automatic restart on system failure
disable driver signature enforcement
start windows normally
Nothing about bios anywhere
Wait, that's Windows bringing up that menu... there is hope
Does the system beep when it starts up?
if you go to safe mode with command prompt do you get a c:/ ?
I can try, but it wouldnt start in safe mode at all when I tried before.
Ive got a whole screen of lines saying
Loaded: \windows\system32\drivers\(words).sys
just sitting there
sat there for a while then quit and tried to restart again, no change.
Every F key brings up the same boot menu thing, except f10 brought up "edit boot options"
Edit windows boot options for: Windows Setup
Path \windows\system32\boot\winload.exe
[ /DETECTHAL /MININT /REDIRECT RDIMAGEOFFSET=8192 RDIMAGELENGTH=3161088 R
DPATH=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\sources\boot.wim
submit or cancel
(No beeps at any time)
Did you try the escape and delete keys?
escape key kills it, del key brings same menu.
You are rebooting the computer (ctrl-alt-del) and then tapping the key as soon as the monitor goes black, right? It doesn't seem right that there should be no key to get you into the bios screen.
And yet, when I hit F2 I get the windows boot manager.
I've never known a pc not to have a bios screen.
Have you tried shutting it all the way down (as opposed to restarting)? Cold starting might show the initial screen that says what key to press to get the bios.
THIS is right from Sony. f2.
if it's going to the wrong place, what does that mean?
if she puts that ultimate boot cd back in, can she get to BIOS from within windows?
I know when i put that boot disc in last night, I was able to get it to run in safe mode...
http://www.kb.sony.com/selfservice/microsites/search.do?cmd=displayKC&externalId=C390705&fes=true
that's a troubleshooting list from sony's site.
Initial screen says VAIO, never says Sony. Goes from that to the cursor where I can hit F2, if I don't it goes to the microsoft progress bar after 2 or 3 seconds.
Same starting from off, restarting or auto restart after failed boot.
There are no other words at any time except for the menus described above.
Is there a different F2 key somewhere? Im hitting the one with the F and the 2.
My model number is not listed on that link btw - its PCG-3B2L
THIS is right from Sony. f2.
if it's going to the wrong place, what does that mean?
if she puts that ultimate boot cd back in, can she get to BIOS from within windows?
It shouldn't matter whether the ultimate cd is in or not. The opportunity to get to the bios screen happens only
before anything else kicks in. If you get to something windowsish, you waited too long or it's the wrong key.
Try this. Shut the computer all the way down. Generally by holding the power key down for 5 or 10 seconds. Wait for a couple of seconds then press the power key again. Right after that start pressing the f2 (or whatever) key once a second. Also keep an eye on the screen because you might get the screen that says what key is the right one to press.
It would also help to know the model number. It's normally on the bottom of a laptop.
Try this.
Ive done that like 100 times I swear to god
That initial screen that says Vaio? You want to already be tapping f2 when that comes up. Continue until you get the bios screen. Do not wait to get a cursor.
Is there a different F2 key somewhere? Im hitting the one with the F and the 2.
lol
to continue, press any key
homer: d'oh! I can't find the 'any' key!
Ok, I took the battery out and threw it across the room, put it back in...
Now I get an new screen! Aptio setup utility - is that close efuckingnough?
Ok. It sounds like this problem is not unknown on that model. Look at this page.
http://www.pchelpforum.com/windows-vista-7/85893-windows-7-blue-screen-death-os-not-found.html
There's a section where another PCG-3B2L owner says he can't get into his bios after a crash.
Wait, no, I have it! What now?
Ok, I took the battery out and threw it across the room, put it back in...
Now I get an new screen! Aptio setup utility - is that close efuckingnough?
Prolly. Tell me what text you see on that screen.
Main
Security
Boot
Exit
More stuff under each option
Yup. Just checked. That's the bios setup for American Megatrends motherboards. Look around for anything that says disk, drive, or storage.
What you're looking for is anything that shows the size of the C: drive.
Or even any evidence that the c: drive exists.
That just in a list though, with serial number and system memory and stuff.
Doesn't say C anywhere.
That just in a list though, with serial number and system memory and stuff.
Doesn't say C anywhere.
No, it wouldn't because Windows is what calls that drive C:. But it shows that that hardware understands you to have a hard drive. Does that sound like the right size for your C: drive?
You said earlier that you ran a disk test and it passed. So I'm wondering if your boot sector is corrupt. This can happen due to a sector failure or it can be caused by bad virus code. Viruses love to squirrel themselve away in the boot sector.
Back later. I've got a meeting.
Ok, thanks, I'll be here googling all that stuff you said...
So... is PZ saying I should put that boot disk back in and try to run some sort of antivirus thinger?
Yes run from the cd again. See if there is fdisk.exe on the cd. If there is, you can fix the master boot record (boot sector) using fdisk.
From a dos box, run "fdisk /mbr" without the quotes.
If you don't have fdisk, look for some other disk utility that looks like it might work on the boot sector or boot record.
and No Jinx its NOT FuckDis , its fdisk
Incidentally, when the boot disk started, it asked if I wanted to start the network or something so I said yes, and then it asked if I wanted to start from a: or c:
Is there a way to search for this fdisk? Or, would it be under programs?
According to
this web page. There should be a tool PTDD (Partition Tool Disk Doctor) that can fix boot sectors. Here's a description.
http://www.ptdd.com/fixboot.htm
I'm assuming that you had a standard boot sector on that machine. It would normally only be changed if you ran multiple operating systems on it or if you had a raid on it. Otherwise it should be safe to blast the boot sector.
Under programs Ive got
PassPro
peinst
putty
DiskCheck and other various things I thought I'd try don't see a C:
I think Im too retarded to do this but I really appreciate your help.
I think Im too retarded to do this but I really appreciate your help.
The programs that typical solve that were fixboot, fixmbr, etc. I was under the impression fdisk had long been discontinued - moved to the recovery console.
Much of what you just went through would be solved (learned) immediately by the diagnostic. And again, it has at least three sources - on the hard drive, on a CD-Rom, and from the manufacturer web site. If it does not exist, well, you now appreciate why I only recommend computer that provide those diagnostics.
Going back on what you learned. First, BIOS often only be entered from a cold reboot (not from Cntrl-Alt-Del).
Bios then talks to and reads the disk drive computer. In your case the 320 Mb and other disk drive serial numbers, etc. After that, a diagnostic would move on to confirming disk drive computer can actually read all sectors on the disk and other important points.
Once that is done, then boot the machine from another completely different CD - your Windows boot CD. One that is something called a Recovery Console that contains the 'fix windows software on the disk' programs. Either you boot windows or your boot the Recovery Console that contains Fixboot, FixMbr, Bootcfg and other programs.
Details are provided in:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/307654
Meanwhile, appreciate why I prefer companies that provide those comprehensive hardware diagnostics including Dell and HP. It makes problems so massively easier to understand. In your case, the diagnostics would have immediately said which disk drives actually existed - and not confused the help who assumed the drive had failed.
We had a Dell die 1 year and 1 week after purchase. Boat anchor.
Jim's current HP is the biggest piece of shit we've ever owned. He fights with it more than he uses it.
Thanks for your help.
Are you interested in pursuing this further?
If you get totally fed up, you can always reformat the drive and reinstall.
I gave up... Jim is taking it apart at the moment.
how do you format a drive the computer can't see?
Hook it up as an external drive for a working PC
there's stuff on there we'd like to try to save
how do you format a drive the computer can't see?
Of course the computer was seeing it. The disk size (320 mb?) and other information from the drive was reported. In the thread, you had only started. Hardly did anything to fix it. Did not load and execute any diagnostics. Have no idea yet what the system can and cannot see.
Clearly, your CD-Rom loaded programs. Therefore the Recovery Console, comprehensive hardware diagnostics, and other repair functions were available and could be executed. I will never understand why so many give up when so may useful options exist and were not attempted. Formatting a disk is the fool's option.
Disassembling the machine all but guarantees you will not fix it. Numerous options were provided from one who never loses a computer - who even fixed computers declared by the Geek Squad as unfixable. But I cannot help when, well, there is a long list of detailed reason why I posted what I did. And received only "quitter's replies" rather than information necessary for the solution.
fuck, speak english, man.
fuck, speak english, man.
Like I said. The most difficult part of the problem is not hardware.
you keep talking about diagnostics that I cannot access.
use a pronoun or two and try again?
Like I said. The most difficult part of the problem is not hardware.
:lol:
running PTDD Fdisk:
says Error: Partition 1 on harddisk1 start sector is 33. The right start sector is 1. Do you want to correct?
you keep talking about diagnostics that I cannot access.
Diagnostics are on hard drive, on CD-Rom, and on manufacturer's web site. You cannot access any of those? Then how are you accessing the Cellar? Again, I am not having difficulty with your computer problem. I am having trouble with you reading what was posted.
And, I also noted, only better computer manufacturers provide those diagnostics. Again, only repeating what was posted before.
Also discussed was the Recovery Console. From previous posts, that also is available.
PTDD loaded because you can load and execute programs. This is the first time I have seen actual numbers posted. Why were you withholding critically important numbers? Meanwhile, nothing I posted discusses or even assumes PTDD exists. That was another and completely different solution. Why is this the first time you posted about sector 33? If you want useful assistance, you post numbers until your fingers cry. Because nothing posted is useful without numbers. Quote the messages in detail especially when those numbers appear to have no purpose.
That PTDD implies (but does not yet say) you are fully accessing the hard drive. Meanwhile, how many partitions exist on the hard drive? Comprehensive hardware diagnostics are typically located in their own partition. Does that other partition exist?
Now, that error message says nothing about the hardware diagnostics if they exist on the hard drive. And for the fifth time, those diagnostics are also on CD-Rom and on the manufacturer's web site (if that manufacturer is minimally responsible).
Meanwhile, at the very beginning, I noted that if those diagnostics do not exist, then you need the diagnostic downloaded from the disk drive manufacturer. When jinx read the BIOS, that manufacturer name and model number was read by the BIOS (she complained because it said nothing about "C:"). More critical numbers. Those numbers identify which diagnostic from the disk drive manufacture is available. Then the entire disk drive program is loaded from a CD-Rom (or the USB memory stick, or whatever) so that no Windows and no Recovery Console and no Comprehensive Hardware diagnostic is executing.
Why did I list each in the same sentence. Each one is a program. You only execute that program - no other program - to solve problems. That disk drive manufacturer program is the replacement for Windows - is loaded by the BIOS and executes just like windows (or DOS) without anything else executing. Therefore the results are simple and completely informative.
Once diagnostic verifies hardware parts of the disk drive, only then are you ready to view (diagnosis) the software parts of that disk drive. Tools to look at the software side are Windows (booted from the hard drive or CD-Rom), the Recovery Console (which I have detailed so many times and received no acknowledgement), or PTDD.
Everything here is written at a layman’s level. If it has useful information, then do what I always do to understand anything - read it three or more times. If you read something the first time and understand it, then it probably has near zero useful facts. Again, it is not the computer that is causing so much difficulty. I keep posting all three sources of that comprehensive hardware diagnostic. How can you not have it and yet still access the Cellar? Because you did not read what I posted multiple times.
Diagnostics are on hard drive, on CD-Rom, and on manufacturer's web site. You cannot access any of those? Then how are you accessing the Cellar?
we have 5 computers
Again, I am not having difficulty with your computer problem. I am having trouble with you reading what was posted.
ironic
And, I also noted, only better computer manufacturers provide those diagnostics. Again, only repeating what was posted before.
again and again. it's a Sony.
Also discussed was the Recovery Console. From previous posts, that also is available.
PTDD loaded because you can load and execute programs. This is the first time I have seen actual numbers posted. Why were you withholding critically important numbers? Meanwhile, nothing I posted discusses or even assumes PTDD exists.
please see post #14 for a link to the Ultimate Boot CD which I mentioned in the first post.
That was another and completely different solution. Why is this the first time you posted about sector 33? If you want useful assistance, you post numbers until your fingers cry. Because nothing posted is useful without numbers. Quote the messages in detail especially when those numbers appear to have no purpose.
That PTDD implies (but does not yet say) you are fully accessing the hard drive. Meanwhile, how many partitions exist on the hard drive?
I don't recall specifically, but I think it was partitioned in two pieces...the C and the D recovery partition.
Comprehensive hardware diagnostics are typically located in their own partition. Does that other partition exist?
Now, that error message says nothing about the hardware diagnostics if they exist on the hard drive. And for the fifth time, those diagnostics are also on CD-Rom and on the manufacturer's web site (if that manufacturer is minimally responsible).
Meanwhile, at the very beginning, I noted that if those diagnostics do not exist, then you need the diagnostic downloaded from the disk drive manufacturer. When jinx read the BIOS, that manufacturer name and model number was read by the BIOS (she complained because it said nothing about "C:"). More critical numbers. Those numbers identify which diagnostic from the disk drive manufacture is available. Then the entire disk drive program is loaded from a CD-Rom (or the USB memory stick, or whatever) so that no Windows and no Recovery Console and no Comprehensive Hardware diagnostic is executing.
Why did I list each in the same sentence. Each one is a program. You only execute that program - no other program - to solve problems. That disk drive manufacturer program is the replacement for Windows - is loaded by the BIOS and executes just like windows (or DOS) without anything else executing. Therefore the results are simple and completely informative.
Once diagnostic verifies hardware parts of the disk drive, only then are you ready to view (diagnosis) the software parts of that disk drive. Tools to look at the software side are Windows (booted from the hard drive or CD-Rom), the Recovery Console (which I have detailed so many times and received no acknowledgement), or PTDD.
Everything here is written at a layman’s level. If it has useful information, then do what I always do to understand anything - read it three or more times. If you read something the first time and understand it, then it probably has near zero useful facts. Again, it is not the computer that is causing so much difficulty. I keep posting all three sources of that comprehensive hardware diagnostic. How can you not have it and yet still access the Cellar? Because you did not read what I posted multiple times.
you base your assumption on the incorrect premise that i only have one computer. your advice is useless if it is incomprehensible. I appreciate you taking the time to attempt to help us, but clearly I'm too stupid to comprehend these words of yours. Your condescending attitude is NOT appreciated.
Everything I've seen leads me to think that the C drive has died. I took it out and put it back in last night.....rebooted without the boot disc, held my finger on the drive to see if i could feel it spinning up, and felt nothing.
does anyone that can speak english have any other ideas? Tony? Mitch? Pete?
My son has a Sony Viao. The description of your original post happened to his and it's new! ( ish) I asked him what he did to fix it. He said he had to buy reformatting c/ds
That's all I know... except I won't ever buy a Sony laptop.
Diagnostics would not be interesting in a case where the MBR is trashed.
does anyone that can speak english have any other ideas? Tony? Mitch? Pete?
If it was me at this point I would probably try booting the original install CD/DVD and doing a Repair install.
Repair for XP
Repair for Vista
Repair for 7That's a good idea toad.
You might also try pming mbpark. It think he specializes in this kind of thing.
running PTDD Fdisk:
says Error: Partition 1 on harddisk1 start sector is 33. The right start sector is 1. Do you want to correct?
BTW, I'd guess this is most certainly your problem. I suspect a virus trying to mess with your machine.
Where are you on this?
Everything I've seen leads me to think that the C drive has died. I took it out and put it back in last night.....rebooted without the boot disc, held my finger on the drive to see if i could feel it spinning up, and felt nothing.
I dunno, Jim. PTDD was accessing
something when it gave you that information above. You don't have more than one physical hard drive in this thing, do you?
BTW, I'd guess this is most certainly your problem. I suspect a virus trying to mess with your machine.
Where are you on this?
Unfortunately, I'm stuck at work, and it's getting busy.
I dunno if jinx wants to try playing with this today...but if anyone wants to chat tonight, I'll be there by 10 pm probably.
We've got people coming tonight, but I'll try to check in if I can.
Sounds like BigV might be offering too.
I gotta get out of the house.
While I'm waiting, I'll think out loud about problems like this. I'm not trying to patronize anyone.
The computer has a cpu, the central processing unit. The "big" chip that gets all the headlines. It's like the engine in a car. It takes a lot of parts to make a car go, but the engine is the component that gets the badge with displacement or aspiration, etc. In the computer, the cpu can only run instructions, just as the engine can only run on gas. When the computer is **first turned on**, there are no instructions. Lots of stuff has to happen first.
The first thing that happens when the power's turned on is a chip(s) in the computer that has built into it just a few instructions is activated. These instructions are the barest minimum that are needed to tell the computer where the pieces and parts are. Where to find more instructions and where to put the result of those instructions. The input and output systems of the computer. This is the BIOS, the Basic Input Output System. Every computer has something like this.
It is this bios that we were all frothing about at the start (and well into the thread). It is activated at the very *very* beginning, and it is the part where the computer gets to learn what hardware is where, like... your drive C:. What's on the C: drive? More instructions of course, not to mention your data. This is why we wanted to find out if the bios could see drive C:. Turns out you could see C:, a very good thing.
Now, once the bios has id'ed all the parts in the system (more or less), it hands control off to the next part, usually drive C:. Usually, but not always. For example, lj was able to boot (btw, boot is short for bootstrap loader. A bootstrap loader is a program on a chip/disk that starts a system from essentially nothing, just as you would levitate yourself by lifting up on your own bootstraps.) the system from the cdrom drive. The bios knew enough to boot, then hand off control to the next system. C: drive in this case was not working so the cdrom was the next choice.
At this point, we've booted the system to the point when we can use the instructions on **some** disk (hd or cdrom). Now the process repeats itself kind of, just like you'd shift gears in a car as you accelerate. This boot (not power on boot, but from a disk boot) process also has a starting point. The beginning part is called the Master Boot Record. This is a bit like the first groove on a vinyl LP (children, seek out your parents or grandparents for information on "vinyl LP"). If this groove is functioning properly, it guides the needle and tonearm to the rest of the record where the music plays, and so it works on your hd (hard drive). If this groove (boot record) has a scratch, you're kind of screwed. The needle and tonearm will not get to the music. Same is true for the hd, if the boot record is messed up, like if it is expecting to see the next instruction in location 1 but is instead directed to location 33, trouble will result. Imagine trying to listen to the record from the first groove and then jumping to groove 33. You'd miss a lot, right? So would the computer.
Fixing this in the computer is best left to a program that can detect this trouble and using the repair commands in that program. One of the previous post described this process with the fixmbr command. This seems like good advice in this case.
This is a good place to stop for now.
After reading that explanation in plain English, I'm awaiting the next installment with bated breath. :thumbsup::thumbsup:
Very well written post BigV - understandable even! thanks. Oh and what that retired xoB said.
you base your assumption on the incorrect premise that i only have one computer.
Obviously you have a second computer because you are on the cellar. Therefore you have everything you need to get diagnostics and to fix the first computer. Everything posted is easy - designed for layman. But, again, your problem is that you are not reading what was posted.
For example. You have a second computer. So you go to the disk drive manufacturer's web site and get the disk drive diagnostic. How is that so difficult? And again, the problem is not your broken computer. The problem is you did not read simple directions to see, for example, that Sony should have provided those diagnostics on the hard drive, on a provided CD-Rom, and on their web site. You have a second computer. That means you use that second computer to get diagnostics. Or use the CD-Rom that only better computer manufacturers provide for free.
It is a Sony. That does not mean anything except that it is a Sony. That does not say the computer is from a responsible manufacturer. If Sony does not provide comprehensive hardware diagnostics, then it is no better than Gateway.
PTDD - another completely different solution to the same problem, says the computer is talking to the disk drives computer. What that all means is explained in simplest English in the previous post. But again, it is completely new to you. So how many times did you reread it? And then you ask questions about each sentence you do not grasp - one sentence or paragraph at a time.
All this silliness about not understanding is emotions (also called frustration). You must dispose of that your #1 problem to solve this problem. We already went through that previously with your Dell. A simple solvable problem that remained unsolved only because you got frustrated quickly and gave up.
If anything is confusing, then emotionally get angry and blame others. The learned keep asking questions every hour of the month until they learn. You post frustration rather than ask questions. Therefore I cannot help you with your confusion and frustration. You don't ask questions. You just keep expressing emotions. And again, the most difficult problem is not the computer. The most difficult problem is getting you to address the problem without letting emotions (frustration) take hold.
PTDD says you have two partitions? One is the recovery partition? Then only the Recovery Console can access that partition. And computer's CPU and disk drive's CPU are talking to each other.
Forget, for now, referenced to C: and D: drives. It exists only when discussing disk drive 'software'. First you must establish disk drive 'hardware'. Define were so many ways to do that. Does Sony provide comprehensive hardware diagnostics? Or is Sony another inferior computer company like Gateway? Then move on to other solutions such as the diagnostic from the disk drive manufacturer. Or the Recovery Console as provided in that Microsoft 'easy to understand' description. Or use the PTDD software to only see what the disk drive is doing. Or use the hyperlinks provided by UT.
In every case they are ideal layman's descriptions. And in every case, you do not even being to understand what is written until the third reread. That is how technical things work.
Caution - fixing any partition or file on a drive without first establishing hardware (disk) is good (without first using comprehensive hardware diagnostic or disk drive manufacturer's diagnostic) can result in loss of all data on the disk.
Everything I posted assumed you have a second computer. That means you have Sony's comprehensive diagnostic available from all three sources (on disk, on CD-Rom, and on their web site) as I have posted now six times.
Fixing this in the computer is best left to a program that can detect this trouble and using the repair commands in that program. One of the previous post described this process with the fixmbr command.
As BigV described, BIOS is a program that exists only in the motherboard. BIOS then loads other programs from the hard drive, from the CD-Rom, or from a memory stick.
Programs it can load are comprehensive hardware diagnostic (from hard drive, CD-Rom, or from what was downloaded from the Sony web site), Console Recovery program (from the Microsoft CD-Rom), PTDD (from that CD-Rom), disk drive manufacturer's diagnostic (downloaded from the disk drive web site), DOS, or Windows (from hard drive or Microsoft CD-Rom). You choose what BIOS will load and execute by what you put into the CD-Rom or memory stick. Or by pressing F2 to select what you want to execute from that menu (same menu that jinx choose to boot with or without network support).
Fixmbr is only one of many repair programs available on the Recovery Console (one a Microsoft and Sony provided CD-Rom). It will fix software on the disk drive.
However if a diagnostic does not first confirm disk drive hardware is OK, then fixmbr might cause permanent data damage. That is why more responsible computer manufacturers (ie Dell, HP) provide comprehensisve hardware diagnostics for free. And why everyone knows Gateway and E-machines are crap.
Provided are numerous options. Same thing is posted by so many with different words. Every post at layman's level.
All solutions load and execute only when the BIOS does so. You select what the BIOS loads either by installing the appropriate CD-Rom (or memory stick) or by using that F2 key to select what to load.
Everything you have posted implies the motherboard CPU is talking to the disk drive's CPU.
Hi,
Please do the following:
1. From the ultimate boot CD, go to Start -> Run -> compmgmt.msc
2. go to Disk Management from there.
3. See if you have a Disk 0 hard drive.
4. If you do, then go Start -> Run -> cmd
5. Run chkdsk c: /f from the Command Prompt
That will fix any small HD issues and let you mount the drive.
Ok, I will [attempt to] do that right now. Thank you.
1. check
2. check
3. no - only thing there is the dvd drive
1. check
2. check
3. no - only thing there is the dvd drive
Yeah, that's what I would have expected given what you already tested. It sounds like the bios (hardware level) sees the hard drive, but the OS level doesn't. mbpark will have the best idea of what to do next.
It would be interesting to know though, whether your windows install cd gives you the option to try to fix the os.
I wonder where that is... I'll look for it.
1. check
2. check
3. no - only thing there is the dvd drive
That says software cannot see the disk drive. Explains why Windows cannot load from the disk drive. Only implies a disk hardware failure. Your previous BIOS tests implied drive hardware was working.
If diagnostics (ie test from the disk drive manufacturer) report the drive hardware defective, then only way to obtain data is to replace electronics on the drive OR a data recovery service OR attempt same with the disk attached to another computer interface.
If diagnostics report disk hardware as good, programs on PTDD, other disk recovery software (ie SpinRite from Gibson Research) or Recovery Console (the windows install cd) probably can restore the disk or recovery data.
First question I have is: How new is this Vaio? It may have a newer SATA controller that Windows/UBCD may not recognize.
Do you have a USB to SATA drive interface? You may want to get one, plug the drive into it, and use UBCD to see if it can see the drive.
Not new, sept 08
I assume I don't but I'll ask jim...
The purpose of that test is to see if there's a problem with the onboard SATA controller on the motheboard.
classicman is now in the Technology forum posting more cheap shots and nothing useful or helpful in computer problem. He is doing exactly what Limbaugh and Beck have told him to do. Make things so nasty that the better informed will be hurt, take insult, and not challenge incessant posting and threats from extremists.
Nastiness in the Cellar comes from those who are doing exactly what Limbaugh and Beck encourage them to do. It works because so many remain silent as, for example, classicman attempts to turn another thread nasty.
I made a joke - much like Jim would do, except since Jim is the one with the issue he could not. There was nothing nasty about it.
I can't find the box of disks that came with laptops.... I think the squirrel sold them or something. Jim will find it when he gets home.
Sorry to be incompetent mb, but I appreciate your help.
The USB to SATA interface is a piece of hardware. It costs like $20 online, and it lets you connect hard drives over USB so you can see if they work, or if it is a problem with the motherboard.
DVD drives usually run off of a different controller. Therefore, the DVD drive working and the hard drive not working can be indicative of a bad controller.
Oh! Yeah, I think Jim and zippy were discussing this option last night. We don't have one unless Jim bought one today.
He works in a different state, I haven't really talked to him yet today...
It would be interesting to know though, whether your windows install cd gives you the option to try to fix the os.
hopefully
All mine do, they're all from Dell.
The question is whether the installer will 1) See the hard drive 2) Recognize that there is a previous install on it. If both those things are true, then it might be useful.
If, as mb ponders, it is a controller issue, then the windows install disk would be no use at all.
MB - are the hard drive controllers built into the motherboard on laptops?
I can't find the stuff that came with these two computers. and I don't have one of those SATA things.
a note.....
when in the BIOS screen, the Hard drive shows up, but it's grey and not selectable.
i can't find the discs, but zippy found this:
http://esupport.sony.com/US/perl/swu-list.pl?mdl=VGNFW140EH&LOC=3
is what I need on there, assuming that's our computer?
Yes they are, that means if the HD works, you have to either find someone really good at soldering individual chips at a near-microscopic level, or replace the motherboard.
What does it show for the hard drive in the BIOS screen?
Ok, that means it can see the hard drive.
What hard drives does it show under Computer Management on the PC again using ubcd4win?
What does it show for disk 0, disk 1, etc?
Are you using ubcd4win 3.50? That has support for the latest hard drive controllers.
LJ - it would probably help MB if you brought up the bios screen with the hard drive and took a picture of it. Then post it here. That'll give him the maximum information.
Never mind,
Are you using ubcd4win 3.50? That has support for the latest hard drive controllers.
using the one i used to fix the last problem i had....i can't find a version
What hard drives does it show under Computer Management
so.... should I try installing that driver?
No.
What version of the Ultimate Boot CD are you running? Is it 3.50?
The reason I ask is because the newer version has the newer SATA drivers.
how do i find out which version?
Go to Start -> About and it will tell you the version number.
Jim Snagged 4. something last nite
No, he didn't. Latest version is 3.50 :)
Sorry, I just want to make sure he has the latest version that I know has the latest SATA drivers :).
3.22.00 is the one in the vaio rfn
Get version 3.50 from
www.ubcd4win.com and build that. It has the newer SATA drivers that will let you see the Sony's HD.
ok, on it
edit: what's "build it" mean?
Make sure you build off of an XP SP3 CD.
When you build it, you need a Windows XP CD and the program. You run the program to build the CD ISO, burn the ISO to CD, and then run it on the Vaio.
http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/
i have this one, also.... does it have what i need?
When you build it, you need a Windows XP CD and the program. You run the program to build the CD ISO, burn the ISO to CD, and then run it on the Vaio.
'the program'?
XP CD?
like an XP install disc?
LJ, please run the Ultimate Boot CD for Windows :). It has way more drivers and better support for dealing with the latest hardware because of it. The other CD is good, but it's not going to fix the issues at hand with Windows.
We use variants of it at work for dealing with servers. I have an ISO I use with the Intel firmware update utilities on a FreeDOS image that I remotely boot our servers with to fix firmware issues. I can use the same ISO on desktops or laptops to fix issues. Now that's powerful.
'the program'?
XP CD?
like an XP install disc?
Yes, you will need an XP install disk :).
well. alright. that looks easier than building my own when i have no clue about that shit.
It's got very easy instructions to follow.
yeah.....but I got stuck on the 'get an XP SP3 part'
so.....
keep in mind that I can figure out a new car lease payment by hand if I have to.
LJ,
1. Get the XP SP3 CD I mentioned. Copy its contents to a folder on your hard drive.
2. Get the ubcd4win program.
3. Run the program and follow instructions. Like soup.
here's how retarded i am>
I downloaded that file from the last link i put up..... but it's an exe. do I just copy it to a blank disc, or execute it and see what happens?
I'm scared.
install it on the C: or right to the disk drive?
Chat? Thats a big fucking help in the future. :rolleyes:
It is highly recommended that users copy their XP CD to their hard drive. Simply because it helps reduce read errors from your CD drive and it will speed up the build process. If you choose to do this:
a. Create a "XPCD" folder on one of your internal hard drives.
b. In Windows Explorer, select from the menu: Tools > Folder Options > View tab.
c. Check that the [show hidden files and folders] radio button is selected and the [hide protected operating system files] is unchecked.
d. Now copy the folders and files from your CD drive to the "XPCD" folder on your hard drive.
I'm using a computer that has Vista to do this. I don't see folder options anywhere. i got the xp sp3 iso from microsoft, burnt it with nero, and just copied the entire disc to a folder on my desktop. (if i double clicked, it wanted to install xp on my computer).... which, by the way, i would be happy to do if it would get reid of vista effectively?
going to try to build this thing now..... wish me luck
right away it can't find some i386 file. i have it searching......taking a while....meanwhile, I'm dl'ing the builder exe onto this XP machine...
ok...you can build it on Vista or Win 7. Just make sure you right-click and select "Run As Administrator".
In the folder you created from the CD, i386 should be right there.
did not find any valid install files. wtf....
In the folder you created from the CD, i386 should be right there.
created from which CD? should I
run the XP install disc?
Put the CD in and look on the CD for the i386 files :)
Don't run the XP disc, just put it in your drive.
if i put it in, it wants to auto run.....
i right clicked and copied the whole disc to a file on my desk top.
here's what's inside the first layer:
there's no i386 folder. You just have a CD with XP SP3 on it, not the full installation CD.
If you google, you will be able to find one easily.
would you mind pointing me to a link? I keep going around in circles.... i don't have a torrent program.....and don't want one.....
h[COLOR=Red]xx[/COLOR]p://online-share.org/software/operating-system/456-windows-xp-professional-sp3.html
this?
does microsoft offer this full version for free? or is it all updates?
well...it worked (burning the disc, that is) 7.2 lbs of shit on a 7 lb disc
MB - are the hard drive controllers built into the motherboard on laptops?
Hard drive controllers disappeared when MFM disk drives were replaced with IDE drives. When the ISA bus was replaced with a PCI bus.
Each disk drive is a computer. Between the motherboard computer (PCI bus) and disk drive computer is a transceiver, bidirectonal data gate, or an interface between two asynchronous buses. The motherboard CPU literally sends and receives messages from the disk drive computer.
One of the disk drives must be a master. Something must control / arbitrate the IDE or SATA bus. That is the master drive. On IDE busses, that master drive always has an address of 80h. Therefore the motherboard CPU can send commands to both disk drives. Both drives can be doing tasks. But only one drive responds when it is ready.
It would be interesting to know though, whether your windows install cd gives you the option to try to fix the os.
The Recovery Console is (is supposed to exist) on the Windows install CD. It does not exist on a computer manufacturer's fast restore CD that only wipes the disk drive completely clean and loads only a new OS image. That OS image is Windows after the computer manufacturer has reconfigured it unique to their machine.
Some manufacturers wanted you to burn a windows install CD when you got the machine. Too many users do not or forget to burn that CD. If you did not did not burn that windows install CD, then no Recovery Console exists on a CD. Windows install software is both on the provided or burned CD, and often on a separate partition on the hard drive. Only better systems provide the Windows install CD.
Only the best computer manufacturers also provide comprehensive hardware diagnostics on a CD, on another partition on the hard drive, and on their web site. Had Sony provided same, then most of yesterdays labors would have been completely unnecessary. From what I could see, Sony does not provide that comprehensive hardware diagnostic that Sony and all other computer manufacturer have, could, and should provide for free.
A benchmark for better computer systems. If that manufacture does not provide comprehensive hardware diagnostics, then done buy the machine. This thread demonstrates how complex problems become without it. Hard drive integrity (including SATA or IDE bidriectional interface) could have been established in minutes is Sony provided the comprehensive hardware diagnostic.
Jim,
Did that work. Does it boot now?
Jim,
You see that 290GB unallocated drive?
Right-click and assign it a drive letter, then run CHKDSK on it.
didnt try to boot it yet
right click unallocated drive gets me: properties, create new partition, and help
Jim,
Did that work. Does it boot now?
tried to boot....
got "operating system not found"
re loading ubcd
going to take a quick shower and wait to see if i should 'create a new partition'
Lumberjim,
Don't create a new partition. See if you can use one of the partition repair tools to recover yours!
Creating a new partition = BAD. You probably need to fix the partition entry.
partition tool choices:
bootbuild
easus partition manager
mbr fix
mbr wizard
photo rec
test disk
Let's try Easeus PM and see what it finds.
it shows the c recovery drive ands that unallocated drive...i hit properties and get this
no obvious way to rename the partition....i cannot select the button that says label
test disk says:
Let's try MBRFix and Fix/Update a Vista Type MBR Code.
drive 0?
drive 1?
drive 2?
drive 3?
after running that on all of those drives. I re ran the easeus partition manager....
now i only see the unallocated drive. the c: recovery no longer appears
hrrrm.... now the boot disc won't load all the way. it gets stuck on a the loading widows XP screen
oops....it finally went.. just took a really long time
Jim,
If this doesn't work, get your hands on SpinRite 6.0. That WILL be able to recover the partitions, and costs $89.
Yes, I have used it to repair a seriously damaged HD before and get Windows XP bootable when there was no other choice.
using the partition utilities on the boot CD to get you back to normal with a CHKDSK'ed HD.
mitch,
I don't know what the fuck I'm doing! :)
I'm scared to run anything on this boot disc without being told to. I don't want to just run these utlities willy nilly.
the mbr thing made the recovery drive disappear, and the test disk just inspected, but changed nothing.
what next?
if what doesn't work?
Apparently you guys did some things that do not appear here. Spinrite from Gibson Research is one of the tools suggested earlier.
However, anything your do to fix or change a partition (disk software) without first confirming disk hardware integrity can make things even worse. It appears you have an intermittent failure (unless you did something elsewhere to delete that partition).
That Ultimate Boot CD web site has numerous disk hardware diagnostics for each disk manufacturer. You want to confirm hardware is not causing problems (ie deleting a partition) before trying to restore that partition. Some hardware problems, if identified by the manufacturer diagnostic, can be fixed before the intermittent failure causes worse software damage.
Anything more you do to change the drive will make more data impossible to recover. Best is to confirm disk hardware really is working. Right now, your hardware may be intermittent which is why the partition is (temporarily) deleted. Try that diagnostic from the UBCD web site (for your drive). Because that only reports what you have and does not change anything - does not put data at further risk.
how do I run SpinRite 6.0 if I can't boot up? is it bootable? or do I just put it in the drive after i boot with ubcd?
how do I run SpinRite 6.0 if I can't boot up? is it bootable? or do I just put it in the drive after i boot with ubcd?
First get the manufacturer's diagnostic. It boots from a CD-Rom (or memory stick). If it says the drive is OK, then consider SpinRite. If it says the drive is not OK, then (based upon errors) we change things until it says the drive is OK.
Once the diagnostic says the drive is OK, then spend the $90. The disk diagnostic is free and does not change anything. If the drive hardware never gets OK, then no reason to waste money on Spinrite (unless you have enough curiosity to learn more or the error is something that SpinRite can fix).
The idea is to establish what you have before changing anything and before spending the $90.
I did not see everything you guys did. Don't understand why the data partition disappeared long before the backup partition disappeared. Don't know if you did that intentionally. So I can only suggest the free manufacturer's disk drive program (the one for your drive) that is probably available in that Ultimate Boot CD website (or from the disk manufacturer's web site). See what you have before changing anything.
I never change disk software (ie partition) if I first don't know disk hardware is stable. Unless you guys did something else, I don't see anything that says hardware is stable.
I pretty much posted everything that I did. with pics mostly.
I got spinrite last night and it's running now. i set it to run at 11:30, and went to bed.... at 3 am, i woke up and realized that the damn thing was unplugged and had shut off.
so i plugged in and reran. got up at 7 and it was at 5%. Looks like it's going to take some time.
Post
182 reported the data (Windows) partition had bee deleted. That partition had to exist previously to boot from the Windows installation CD. Sometime previous to that, the partition was deleted by something.
You have courage. I would never fix something without first executing the diagnostic - without first learning what exists. Otherwise problems can get exponentially more complex. I worry about preserving data.
Spinrite will probably take something like 36 hours – probably will not be done until AM Tuesday.. When done, you should have at least two partitions on the hard drive. One about 8 Gb and a second something like 290 Gb.
Still completely unknown (another reason for executing diagnostics long before fixing anything) is why that problem existed. So that it can be averted. My bet is it will happen again because we are probably only curing symptoms - not identifying and then solving the original problem.
Post 182 reported the data (Windows) partition had bee deleted. That partition had to exist previously to boot from the Windows installation CD. Sometime previous to that, the partition was deleted by something.
You have courage. I would never fix something without first executing the diagnostic - without first learning what exists. Otherwise problems can get exponentially more complex. I worry about preserving data.
Spinrite will probably take something like 36 hours – probably will not be done until AM Tuesday.. When done, you should have at least two partitions on the hard drive. One about 8 Gb and a second something like 290 Gb.
Still completely unknown (another reason for executing diagnostics long before fixing anything) is why that problem existed. So that it can be averted. My bet is it will happen again because we are probably only curing symptoms - not identifying and then solving the original problem.
I've only been able to boot from the Ultimate Boot CD. The part where we were talking about the XP install disc was just one of the things I needed to create newer version of the Ultimate Boot CD.
The partition disappeared after i ran MBRFix.
it takes a LOT longer to boot to the UBCD since that changed, but it does still boot to it.
it takes a LOT longer to boot to the UBCD since that changed, but it does still boot to it.
It might be a moot issue (moot boot issue?) but I wonder if your hard drive is ahead of your cdrom drive in the boot sequence. That would explain the additional time needed to boot UBCD now. If it
does get to be an issue, you could mess with the boot sequence in the bios settings.
oh, yeah....i never changed the default.... that makes sense....
does that mean it sees the drive, but not the drive name?
The partition disappeared after i ran MBRFix.
Which is why good diagnostic procedure says fix nothing. First collect all facts. That is what diagnostic are for. And that was the caution I strongly posted in an earliest post.
Fixmbr should not destroy any partition. Fact that the partition was harmed implies other problems exist. Hopefully Spinrite will identify what that problem is without trashing temporarily lost data.
Why do we fix things? #1 is always to learn. I am sure this has been a wonderful (and roller coaster) learning experience. But that is the #1 reason for fixing things - to learn what they mean in CSI by 'follow the evidence'.
If you do get it up, then go to the system (event) logs to discover any problem that Windows has seen long ago – and worked around. That is what those system logs are for. To record temporary problems yesterday so that you can fix them today – long before they become major failures tomorrow.
LJ,
I need for you to run TestDisk again.
Select No Log, then select your drive (the 320GB one), and select Proceed.
Select Intel/PC Partition and hit enter.
Select Analyse.
Select Quick Search.
When asked if TestDisk should search for a partition created under vista, select Y.
Post what you find.
Thanks
I'm at work, computer is at home.
should I interrupt spinrite?
should I interrupt spinrite?
Let it finish. Then first do what mbpark has recommended.
no offense, but I'd like to hear that answer from mbpark.
LJ,
I need for you to run TestDisk again.
Select No Log, then select your drive (the 320GB one), and select Proceed.
It's not there. Only drive X - 725MB
LJ,
I need for you to run TestDisk again.
Select No Log, then select your drive (the 320GB one), and select Proceed.
Select Intel/PC Partition and hit enter.
Select Analyse.
Select Quick Search.
When asked if TestDisk should search for a partition created under vista, select Y.
Post what you find.
Thanks
sorry.... i had accidentally left the old (v3.22) boot disc out, and hid the new one under a sweatshirt.
the new one (v 3.50) sees the drive.....
oh.....spinrite had apparently frozen at 5%..... so we shut it down.
OK Jim,
Hit enter, and then write the partition table to disk.
This is from:
http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk_Step_By_StepOK Jinx,
Hit enter, and then write the partition table to disk.
This is from: http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk_Step_By_Step
OMG - I hope my computer never breaks - I've been following all this and its way over my head. I need to back up a zillion images and stuff somehow. I think its time for me to learn how to burn a disk.
That's a good reminder classic.
I don't know anyone who is great about backing up their computer. But if you've got a decent DVD drive, it's not that hard and doesn't take that long.
Remember that you don't need to save the entire contents of the hard drive. You can always reinstall the programs from the original disks. You only need to save the files that you created or downloaded (and can't just download again). Normally these will be documents of some sort:
Pictures
Text documents
Emails (if you download your emails)
etc.
I never thought about e-mails. I only back up pictures. And I do it religiously in a couple different ways.
I've got an external hard drive. How would I do a back-up of e-mail stuff to a folder on the external hard drive? Where would I find those data files? I have Thunderbird, if that means anything
This page says
C:\Documents and Settings\[Your user name]\Application Data\Thunderbird\Profiles\[ID].default\Mail\Local Folders
Better option: switch to Gmail and let Google manage it from now on.
Thanks! I have gmail, but the thunderbird is the family mail account at out verizon address, used mostly by my wife.
Yeh - I have gmail too, so I'm fine there - its all the images that are really irreplaceable that concern me. Well that and NOT wanting vista :p
I know less than nothing about computers. I think my technical rating is at -22 below nothing.
I've got two external HD's that I backup every photo, song, file to once each month. the first one is here in a safe, the second I keep at my dad's in his safe. In theory it should be fairly hard to lose all my music and pictures... but Murphy's Law is ready to strike me down at any moment.
is it still too soon to make a joke about pics of Labrat[COLOR=White]'s 'puss' [/COLOR]being on that drive?
LOL. not for me. and for those wondering - NO I do not possess any such pics.
I'm still at work.....
jinx went to her sister's today....if she hasn't done, I'll do it when I get home and report back.
ok.... booted.....
the first attempt hung after the microsoft corporation progress bar, so i rebooted (holding down the power button) and it came up to the vaio recovery center
choices are restore drive C or restore complete system
will this lose my data?
edit: one step further tells me that both choices will delete all files on drive c.
any suggestions?
closed that window, and after a pause, this came up:
Wait for mb to chime in, but I think you're close enough that you might be able to get windows to repair the os - if you've got a Windows XP install CD. If you don't, I'd borrow one, to give this a shot.
If you do get it working, do you have a thumb drive large enough to back up what you need off of there? I wouldn't count on being able to burn a cd.
closed that window, and after a pause, this came up:
In order to boot Windows, it must first load some critical drivers unique to HAL. HAL is a software layer that interfaces standard Windows to unique hardware. The error message says your system is Intel based; not AMD based. Correct?
IASTOR.sys is software written by Intel to setup and then talk to their disk drive hardware interface (transistors inside the south bridge). If that driver does not load or execute properly, then the error (...00221) is an undefined hardware error.
Not understood is whether this is a southbridge problem or a problem in the disk drive's computer. But this much you do know. Windows did not boot. Windows failed apparently when configuring for your hardware.
Execute the disk drive diagnostic unique for your disk drive manufacturer (as probably found in Ultimate Boot CD web page). A worst case alternative is continued destruction of data on the disk. Diagnostics do not and will not destroy data - only test, collect fact, and report hardware status.
That error message might be from defective hardware - or many other problems. Best is always to determine if hardware is good before trying to fix anything. Nothing done previously ever said or even implied hardware is good. This error message implies what was suspected; an intermittent hardware problem exists.
Lumberjim,
Run the boot CD again and run chkdsk <drive letter>: /f on all drives.
That should repair any drive issues.
Thanks,
Mitch
You might be able to install Windows on a new hard drive, and mount the old one to get data off of it.
i tried to reboot at this point, but got the same error as post 234
so i ran it again:
then i ran easeus again to see what the partition looked like...
you said
Run the boot CD again and run chkdsk <drive letter>: /f on all drives.
I think I only have a C drive....the recovery partition is just a piece of that? or should I give it a drive letter? ( looks like the Label button is live in this: )
damn it.. i should have gotten naked for those pics!
i'm not backing them up on my external HD's regardless of your state of dress.
This is exactly what it should look like.
Can you boot into Safe Mode on the laptop now by holding down F8 when you boot?
Ok LJ,
At this point, I'd plug in an external HD, and pull off whatever data you can.
Remember that C:\users is where the user data is in Vista and 7.
We'll probably need to do a repair install on Windows, or at the worst case a recover/rebuild.
ok...
do I use the command window to do that?
what are the commands for copying files?
I have a 300 GB external that I can attach via USB
LJ,
You can use Windows Explorer. You will need to go to Control Panel -> force Install USB to get the drive mounted, and then copy the files over.
oh...and "last know good" choice in the boot menu is no good?
LJ,
You can use Windows Explorer. You will need to go to Control Panel -> force Install USB to get the drive mounted, and then copy the files over.
via the boot cd, i presume?
i don't see how to install this drive through control panel...there is no 'add new hardware' option...., although the device manager sees the drive, and says it works.
As long as it sees the drive you should be good, and be able to copy the data off.
As long as it sees the drive you should be good, and be able to copy the data off.
it won't recognize anything but a thumb drive. I have 2 external hard drives one 40G and one 300G. ' My Computer' on the Vaio can't see either of them...nor can any of the other file explorer programs on the boot disc. I have the 8G micro sd from my phone in a usb converter and am shuttling files to my laptop, and then from there onto the 300G drive....I have a 16G thumb drive at work...natch.
what a pain in the ass.
There is that setting, under Settings I think. Try that :).
Otherwise, it's a lot of unpacking and I apologize.
Start -> Settings I think. Not in front of a PC with that CD now.
no such animal, unfortunately.
Plug the drive in and reboot. That should work.
If not, Start >System>HWPnP>"Force Install USB" should.
tried the start>sys> etc option first....
there was 'install USB devices' and Force install devices'
I tried both.... still no good.... rebooting with the drive hooked up now....
...although last time I did that it hung start up....
nothing is easy
goodgodalmighty, restarting it worked.
please to pm me your address so I can mail you some of jinx's oatmeal cookies.
kthx
I posted in this thread, don't i deserve some cookies?
ok, so now how do i get to the restore menu again?
i keep getting
this now.
Send your address, I'll make a double batch.
Srsly
am i sure i want to do a restore?
do i do restore C
or restore complete system?
I think I'll wait to hear the answer to that before I do anything hasty.
Cheer up Jim, if the car business goes south you can join the Geek Squad with your newfound knowledge.;)
Restore the complete system. Then get a hold of Windows Vista Service Pack 2 and install it before you install any other patches!
goodgodalmighty, restarting it worked.
Outstanding! Feel the power of the cellar! Woot!
please to pm me your address so I can mail you some of jinx's oatmeal cookies.
I posted a joke way back when - does that mean Icanhazoatmealcookies?
In between snoozes this morning, I had a dream that jinx was sending cookies to like 13 different people.
Congratulations guys. What a great example of the power of perseverance.
Restore the complete system. Then get a hold of Windows Vista Service Pack 2 and install it before you install any other patches!
I've got to differ with mb on this one. If you have everything you wanted off of the machine, I'd completely reformat the drive, do a clean re-install, and run extensive tests on the drive before I'd trust it with anything.
Pete,
The Sony restore utility takes care of that for you from a different partition.
Sony doesn't give restore disks out. That 8GB partition is what he has to restore the system.
The tests we ran indicate that there's no apparent physical issue. CHKDSK would have crapped itself many times over had there been one.
If you want to run physical tests, go ahead.
like....see how many pushups and sit ups it can do?
The Sony restore utility takes care of that for you from a different partition.
Sony doesn't give restore disks out. That 8GB partition is what he has to restore the system.
Ok. That's make my concern moot.
That'd piss me off, though. If I spend hundreds of dollars on a computer, I want the damn install disk.
LJ,
Doesn't change Sony one bit at all.
The HD should be OK. NTFS does get corrupt, sometimes due to bad Intel storage drivers. That was the error you received on it. iaastor.sys is the Intel storage driver.
Restoring, which is a reformat, and then applying SP2, which has a newer version of the driver and its supporting framework, should help.
Thanks,
Mitch
Oh, I was just noting that I bought it at Best Buy because I didn't get any discs with it. I don't know if they cut corners like that so that they can be priced competitively in the big box stores. ...but i suspect it.
It was a LOT of computer for $1100 I think in Sep of 08.
LJ,
You expect that when there are 3% margins. I highly recommend getting a copy of Symantec Ghost and making a backup copy of that Sony!
Oh, I was just noting that I bought it at Best Buy because I didn't get any discs with it. I don't know if they cut corners like that so that they can be priced competitively in the big box stores.
That was explained previously. Some permit burning that disk. Most users do not or ignore that option. Having you burn the disk saves them (ie Sony) a few dollars - proabably less.
As you have seen, essential to recovering a system is to have that disk - or something equivalent. Same disk that better manufacturers locate comprehensive hardware diagnostics.
Formatting is popular. Also called nuke'n pave. Does not make a system any more stable - except if the system is contaminated with malware that security software does not locate. Many do that when normal recovery software is never learned. And when discovering (suspecting) the reason for failure is unimportant.
lumberjim appears to have an intermittent problem as indicated by so many files and index pointer changes that normal should never happen or that are automatically corrected by the filesystem.
Reasons for that intermittent failure still have not been identified. Malware is one possible reason. Doubtful. Most likely reason for such massive corruption is hardware failure. In particular, a intermittent failure. That is what the system logs are for. Intermittent failures are stored in those event logs. Windows works around the failure. Characteristics (especially for intermittent failures) are discovered later by examining those logs.
If that laptop has intermittent hardware failures, critical information(how to avoid failures before failures created problems) may be listed in those logs.
Copying data via Ghost is highly recommended. Nothing says the failure was fixed; only the resulting problem was solved.
LJ,
You expect that when there are 3% margins. I highly recommend getting a copy of Symantec Ghost and making a backup copy of that Sony!
How do you feel about
Mozy?Hey Jim/Jinx - I'll make molasses cookies if you come and back-up all my pictures?
TW,
The specific error he was getting pointed to a very specific Intel driver, iaastor.sys. Drivers do cause filesystem corruption as well. This particular one is the Windows device driver for the SATA controller on the motherboard.
Microsoft pushed out a second Service Pack for Vista (and Server 2008) that corrected major bugs in the various subsystems, including TCP/IP and storage.
OEM vendors were not required to ship Vista Service Pack 2, as is usually the case with Microsoft. They require their vendors to ship machines with a new service pack within 30-60 days of its release.
In this case, the machine shipped with SP1. SP2 is an optional update, which IMHO is a really stupid decision on the part of MS!
Here's what's fixed in SP2:
http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=143706
There are at least 3 hotfixes for NTFS alone, 2 of which can cause corruption, not to mention the fact that if a machine blue-screens, it will take NTFS with it and cause filesystem corruption. NTFS may be a sophisticated file system, but if your device drivers are not 100%, and during a crash dump, when they will not flush out your data the right way, you will have a corrupt file system. Remember that this happens on ALL file systems, and that fsck is the same as chkdsk on Mac OS X, Linux, and BSD.
I had that happen on Christmas Eve with a server that our operations staff decided to shut down using the power button instead of normal methods. It took 5 hours to CHKDSK the volume and bring it back.
You forget that this isn't the NT 4.0 days. Device drivers are incredibly complicated, and I have seen higher-end hardware have corrupt file systems specifically because of bad device drivers. This has happened on Windows, Linux, OS X, and many other OSes.
I don't think it was a physical problem. I think that something got corrupt either due to the machine being shut down improperly, a bad device driver, or both.
I've seen file systems get corrupt on million-dollar IBM z9 mainframes, HP Proliants, Dell servers, and other machines that cost as much as a new car. Many times, it had to do with either a power cut or improper shutdown that caused the file system to have errors, and the device drivers didn't know how to deal with the errors caused.
The only difference is that Lumberjim didn't have 3 IBM techs taking care of his filesystem at 5 AM, and my employer did.
How do you feel about Mozy?
Mozy is good. GE uses them for their employees' home PCs, and I have an acquaintance who uses them.
Highly recommended.
TW,
I think that something got corrupt either due to the machine being shut down improperly, a bad device driver, or both.
POST #9
i don't see anything when it tries to boot. it just says starting windows...then that little green bar thing going back and forth....forever
edit: jinx says [COLOR=Red]the last thing that happened was that the battery died [/COLOR]and when she plugged it back in ....no boot.
__________________
Restore the complete system. Then get a hold of Windows Vista Service Pack 2 and install it before you install any other patches!
it seems like I'll lose the recovery partition if I do this. are you sure?
No, the recovery partition stays if you use that to recover. Installing a SP will not overwrite it.
ok. here goes. omg omg omg
However, I'd Ghost the system ASAP after installing it!
Or better yet, get a copy of Acronis True Image. Ghost ceased to be relevant the moment they were acquired by Symantec; the great bloater/destroyer of utilities.
edit: jinx says the last thing that happened was that the battery died and when she plugged it back in ....no boot.
For Iastor.sys to trigger a software bug, as mbpark has defined, something unusual had to occur to 'trigger' the defect. Above might be one ‘unusual’ example. Why unusual? Because laptops do not perform an unexpected power off. When the battery gets too low (based upon system settings), the system does a normal power off. That should not 'trigger' some otherwise hard to locate software fault.
And so this question. Why would a system suddenly power off? Why did the system do perform the normal 'battery is too low' warning to do the normal shutdown because battery is too low? Or does Sony not have this standard function in its BIOS?
TW,
You're asking a consumer electronics company that does not have the emphasis on quality that they did 25 years ago to do so. The batteries in laptops don't last as long as they used to. My wife's lasted all of 2 years on her Dell. This machine was a 2008 purchase.
When a laptop battery dies, it's often too quick for the BIOS to even give the warning.
Or better yet, get a copy of Acronis True Image. Ghost ceased to be relevant the moment they were acquired by Symantec; the great bloater/destroyer of utilities.
Ghost is one of the few products that Symantec hasn't completely screwed up when they bought it.
I will give you Systemworks, Symantec AV (now Endpoint Protection) and PCAnywhere as examples of how they have really screwed things up, but Ghost actually is not that bad. We use it with Altiris to build our images. Ghost and RDeploy make image deployment really quick!
Looks like it's working. I went to bed after getting the SP2 put on, and connecting it to the interwebz. Jinx was resetting her settings and stuff..
thanks a BUNCH, everybody!
and you didn't even get to use the sledgehammer -
Very impressive!
When a laptop battery dies, it's often too quick for the BIOS to even give the warning.
In an earlier post, lumberjim left SpinRite working. Then discovered it was only on batteries - did not shutdown immediately. That would be more than enough time for the normal shutdown function to see low battery and shutdown the machine.
Batteries in laptops were never intended to portable operation. Their purpose is temporary power - just like a UPS.
Laptop battery live expectancy is 300 cycles. A technology challenge that has major attention - was even a cover story article in the IEEE Spectrum. Getting batteries to 500 cycles is the new challenge.
From what I read, those batteries had sufficient life expectancy to operate the machine so that a normal shutdown could occur. It implies why the failure happened - ie the setting were corrupted or do not exist. Or some other reason for the failure exists. Or combination.
I would be looking viewing those normal shutdown settings. And, due to technical numbers is paragraph three, laptops should shutdown before battery drops below 30%.
(Same reason why the Prius does not let NiMHds drop below 50% charge.)
Tom,
Spinrite usually runs on top of DOS, which is instant.
I've seen batteries go from 50% to 0% in one second. No PC can keep up.
A laptop battery can go through 300 cycles in less than 2 years. After that, the batteries start having major issues.
Batteries in laptops these days have their own little "OS" and RAM to report information such as charge and number of cycles. They can get corrupt too.
The battery crapped out, the laptop did not shut down right, and took the file system with it.
I've seen batteries go from 50% to 0% in one second. No PC can keep up.
A laptop battery can go through 300 cycles in less than 2 years. After that, the batteries start having major issues.
Batteries in laptops these days have their own little "OS" and RAM to report information such as charge and number of cycles. They can get corrupt too.
1) All which is relevant to the still unanswered question - why did that failure happen and what should be done to avert it? Not just for lumberjim. For all other laptop users.
Conclusions that imply defective battery replacement is critical to protect disk drive data.
2) I did not find that IASTOR.sys update. How old (how long ago) were those four 'bugs' corrections?
3) This laptop battery is seven plus years old because batteries are not used as the main power source. And why that automatic shutdown should be 30% or higher.
I just want to point out that it is jinx's computer. Mine (HP-- the POS model) had a whole different kind of issue much earlier.
The battery crapped out, the laptop did not shut down right, and took the file system with it.
It would not be hard for me to not ever let it run on the battery, I almost never do... but should I get a new one?
And I really do want to send you (and Pete!) some cookies. How about those addresses?
(and jims HP really is a POS, he threatens to throw it at least once a week, usually because it's doing some update or another for long periods of time and/or becomes unresponsive. Takes about 10 minutes to restart. Simply refuses to install new software. And he says "wow, that looks so much better on your your screen" frequently.)
A laptop battery can go through 300 cycles in less than 2 years. After that, the batteries start having major issues.
So do you have any tips for battery management to get the longest life possible?
Should the battery be allowed to discharge fully before recharging? Typically I have mine on battery power for an hour or so before I plug it back in to be charged for the next day. So I only drain it halfway before recharging. Does that matter?
So do you have any tips for battery management to get the longest life possible?
Should the battery be allowed to discharge fully before recharging?
NiCds once had memory problems. The solution was to completely discharge and then recharge that technology. And then the problem was eliminated with newer chemistries. But the myths live on.
Discharging a battery down simply reduces its life expectancy by one. It does nothing useful.
Leaving a battery discharged (any technology) decreases its life expectancy. This is especially true of sealed lead acid batteries in UPSes.
Better chargers can be left connected to batteries - and not shorten life expectancy. Some chargers left recharging a battery too long can be harmful. That would not be the case (a problem) for laptops. Still, it is better to power off a laptop if the battery does not need recharging due to extremely rare events - because that minor energy consumption has no advantages.
In jinx's case, the battery should be (and can easily be) replaced maybe for something between $40 and $120.
Operating a laptop on battery power for an hour means you will be replacing that battery soon. Laptops used that way means replacing batteries - probably a few times. Laptops are intended to be used from AC power (not batteries) most of the time.
Laptops are intended to be used from AC power (not batteries) most of the time.
If I have to be plugged into the wall, it might as well be a desktop.
you could get an extension cord?
If I have to be plugged into the wall, it might as well be a desktop.
A desktop stays in one location. Does not contain a UPS.
A laptop is mobile - can be used in (and powered by) a car. Contains a UPS. Can be used temporarily without power during unexpected events.
Or you can say money is no object and just keep buying batteries.
Technology is still slowly addressing this problem. Part of the solution is sold by Intel with the trade name Atom. HP and others are/were testing better battery technologies (500 cycles) in customer machines (who do not even know they were using experimental batteries). Things will get better because the computer industry is so innovative. And because some American battery companies have decided to let innovators innovate. But currently, laptops are not intended to be used regularly only from batteries.
Laptops are mobile devices that even contain a UPS. Do you regularly operate a desktop only from its UPS battery? Then learn how quickly that UPS battery fails. A UPS for desktops is a cheapest design. Wears out its batteries even faster. Laptops also have a UPS – typically rated only for 300 discharge cycles.
A desktop stays in one location. Does not contain a UPS.
A laptop is mobile - can be used in (and powered by) a car. Contains a UPS. Can be used temporarily without power during unexpected events.
Yes, I understand the technological difference between the two. But if I can't drag my laptop all over the house for a couple hours at a time, then plug it back in to recharge before dragging it all over the house again... then it's no good to me.
Laptops also have a UPS – typically rated only for 300 discharge cycles.
How do partial discharges fit into this rating? Because I've had this laptop (with the original battery) for almost 3 years now, and I've run it on battery power for at least 2-3 hours a day, every single day. That's about 1000 partial discharges.
SITUATION!
If mbpark and Pete Zicato continue to refuse to PM jinx their addresses for cookie shipment, her feelings will be hurt, and I won't get any overflow cookies. Please rectify this situation, men.
/SITUATION!
point is ....she aint gonna make em if'n mitch and dar don't give her a reason to start the batches, bitches!
I've told her how beautiful, smart and and and she is. Not much more I can do...
<sulks away dejectedly>
Will send PM later. It's been one of those days.
How do partial discharges fit into this rating? Because I've had this laptop (with the original battery) for almost 3 years now, and I've run it on battery power for at least 2-3 hours a day, every single day. That's about 1000 partial discharges.
Best I can provide are ballpark numbers. For example, discharging to 25% may be equivalent to 10% of a life expectancy cycles. 50% discharge may be equivalent a 35% or 40% discharge cycle. And (of course) a 100% discharge would count as a 100% discharge cycle. Ballpark numbers that only demonstrate the trend.
Another factor is how fast a discharge occurs. Some batteries last longer if each discharge cycle is slower. Or if power drain does not involve high power demand spikes. If computer useage involves repeated sleeps or other 'low power' operations, then again, a battery discharge is not as destructive to life expectancy.
Specfic numbers are difficult to obtain.
How do partial discharges fit into this rating? Because I've had this laptop (with the original battery) for almost 3 years now, and I've run it on battery power for at least 2-3 hours a day, every single day. That's about 1000 partial discharges.
Just saw this and thought I'd pass it along.
How to make your electronics batteries last longerWill send PM later. It's been one of those days.
how much later?
Don't trust him, Mitch. He just wants to be able to reach you in the middle of the night, to come and fix his multitude of toys. :haha:
so....
the freaking thing is doing it again. i already have the backup, and it sees the c drive, so i'm running chkdsk c: /f again.
think i should replace the hard drive?
LJ,
Yes. I think you should.
You can copy the existing HD, so you can keep the recovery partition, to another HD if you get a USB to SATA adapter and run RawCopy from the Ultimate Boot CD to transfer the data over. This will take an hour or two, but it'll work. I've used it with a Sony VAIO before.
Get the HD model and order something from the same vendor that's either the same size or a little bigger, and 7200 RPM if possible. Sony and other vendors like Lenovo are infamous for locking machines to a single HD vendor.
so....
the freaking thing is doing it again.
As stated at the very
beginning to avoid exponential aggravation: All manufacturers have these diagnostics. Your problem is exactly why better manufacturers provide these diagnostics. If not provided, then use another machine to burn a bootable CD (or USB stick) with the diagnostic from the disk drive manufacturer. Idea is to learn what is wrong long before trying to fix anything ... so that data is not lost and so that the problem is not made exponentially more complex.
Chkdsk is to fix something after damage results. Is not a diagnostic tool. Is not for finding defects before damage results. A diagnostic could have answered that long ago.
It occurs to me that both Seagate and Western Digital offer free diagnostics for download, that are better than manufacturer diagnostics.
Western Digital diagnostics told me that my main XP installation C: drive was dying. Last year.
I used it for another six months while I built the system up for Win 7. I still boot into XP from time to time. It still works.
Jim , If You send the dead drive to me Ill put a .44 mag hole or a few thru it for ya , And take Pics , Maybe even Video for you
That's about the only post in this thread I understand.
I wonder what will be in working order first; my jeep or my vaio. Any bets?
mitch,
if you don't mind,
this is what came in the Vaio. Unavailable at newegg.
This one is, though. I don't see a 7200 RPM Toshiba drive. is that 3263 the upgrade to the 3252?
and
which usb to sata adapter should I get?
thanx
Ok,
I got the new Drive, and the SATA/USB adapter. I have jinx's computer up and running with the old drive. I plugged the new drive into it with the adapter, and formatted it with one NTFS partition. Now how exactly do I copy the recovery partition onto the new drive?
LJ,
Run the boot CD again, and make sure you can see both hard drives (old and new!) by running compmgmt.msc and going to Disk Management.
Make sure your old HD is Disk 0, and your USB drive is Disk 1. You can tell because your Disk 0 will have 2 partitions on it, and Disk 1 will have 1.
Run RawCopy (under Disk Tools) and select Physical Drive 0 as your source, and Physical Drive 1 as your destination.
Click Copy, and then go off and do something for a couple of hours. It will take that long!
When you're done, you'll have a copy of your source drive you can put in the laptop and use.
first attempt failed.
It was going along with a % complete number for a while, then i checked it and it said 'attempting data recovery' for a long time, and then it said 'copy cancelled.' The f&*^%ing cat had jumped up onto the corner of the keyboard a couple times, so I assumed he had done something..... so I reset it, and cat proofed it....and it started with the % complete thing again....last time i checked it said 8.24% complete....and now...it says 'attempting data recovery' again. I'm concerned that it's cancelled again....
god hates me.
nevermind.... its at 10.06% complete now.
sorry, god.
Ok, It took all night, but it was done when I woke up. It took me 10 minutes to swap the drive in, and it started right up. Thanks again, Mitch!
Excellent!
now . . .. about those cookies . . .
