Brown Out Tech Fix?

We had a middle of the night brown out last week, along with a series of outages. So far it has cost us one laptop power supply. If this continues, I'm expecting to burn out all my appliances. My neighbors have a machine shop so I expect there to be some power regulation issues. What I assume I need is low-voltage regulation, over-voltage regulation, and spike suppression. I know this is one of tw's hot button issues so I'm laying it out to the dwellar community. What, if anything, should I invest in. I'm mostly concerned with the computers, the refrigerator, and the chest freezer. kthx g

Griff;577513 wrote:

We had a middle of the night brown out last week, along with a series of outages. So far it has cost us one laptop power supply.

What do many recommend for brownout protection? A UPS. What do all laptops contain? A UPS.

Junk science is to observe something. Then make a conclusion from that observation. Many see a brownout. See electronics damage. Then *know* brownouts cause electronics damage. Junk science. Observation without underlying facts and fundamental theory is a classic junk science conclusion.

Brownouts are destructive to motorized appliances - air conditioner, refrigerator, furnace fan motor, etc. But brownouts never cause electronics damage - even those without an internal UPS.

However brownouts can be a symptom of other problems. Those other problems would explain a laptop power supply failure. Electrical anomalies include blackouts, brownouts, harmonics, noise, and surges. Each is unique. Solutions required in different locations. But solutions cannot be implemented without first defining the problem.

Low voltage and blackouts are never destructive to electronics. Otherwise power off also would be destructive. Otherwise the brownout (intentionally created inside some electronics when first powered on) would be destructive. And so the question is, "What caused that damage?" Well, best evidence is always the dead body. An autopsy is informative.

Laptop power supplies (on 120VAC) must operate uninterrupted on any voltage from 90 VAC to 260 VAC. Well beyond what is harmful to other appliances. Voltage variations (ie brownouts) do not explain that damage. In fact, every computer must work just fine even when incandescent bulbs are glowing at less than 40% intensity.

What exactly was damaged when it was located where (ie what was the table top material; what was the floor; where in relation to the breaker box; what other cables; etc)?

that'll larn ya

The only thing that will address your problem fully is a whole-house voltage stabilization system. Mucho, mucho bucks.

tw;577596 wrote:

What exactly was damaged when it was located where (ie what was the table top material; what was the floor; where in relation to the breaker box; what other cables; etc)?

Damaged part: Toshiba AC/DC adapter model ADP-75SB AB
Table top material: hardwood over plywood
Floor material: hardwood over plywood
Circuit: two duplex receptacles and three basement lights (the computer was plugged into a gfci receptacle along with an amplifer/subwoofer and were the only active loads)
Distance from breaker box: <20 linear feet away and <30 feet of #12

Elspode;577642 wrote:

The only thing that will address your problem fully is a whole-house voltage stabilization system. Mucho, mucho bucks.

I was thinking about a UPS for the fridge and freezer...

Can't do it, they take too much power for battery backup.

I was recently talking to an electrician friend who did work at the CIA building in Langley Virginia 15-20 years ago. Apparently, back then at least, the CIA had a huge flywheel in the basement of the building that was kept spinning so that if there was ever a power outage, the kinetic energy in the wheel was used to power some sort of generator that would keep the power going to critical electrical systems without any delay at all. Most generator systems kick in after a split second or so, and the CIA couldn't deal with a delay that long. This guy said that you could feel the hum of the flywheel even when you weren't on the same floor.

This friend hadn't seen the flywheel himself, it had just been described to him by someone there.

Undertoad;577766 wrote:

Can't do it, they take too much power for battery backup.

Yeah, makes sense. Maybe a low power sensor that shuts off the power? *shrug* Maybe I just need to produce my own power. :)

I just looked at the replacement part that Pete ordered. The replacement they suggest is a higher wattage than the one purchased with the machine...

Griff;577741 wrote:

I was thinking about a UPS for the fridge and freezer...

Some of the 'dirtiest' electricity an appliance will ever see comes from a UPS in battery backup mode. The popular myths promote a UPS to 'clean' electricity. But even the manufacturer specification do not state that. That myth is another perfect example of why we knew Saddam had WMDs.

Output from a UPS is so 'dirty' as to be harmful to small electric motors and power strip protectors. Meanwhile, computers are so robust as to make 'dirty' UPS electricity irrelevant.

UPS has only one function - to protect from data loss. UPS does nothing for hardware protection.

Do not confuse that UPS with building wide systems. Serious solutions use batteries to maintain power until generators get up to speed. We had one trip on during a critical stage of a satellite launch. Never even knew AC power was lost due to a car crash. But that is a serious UPS located at the service entrance.

Many see damage after a power loss. Then blame the power loss. Took apart an entire power supply circuit. Only the last part (that I would have never expected) had failed. A failed pullup resistor's only function was to bootstrap the power supply controller during startup. But it was damaged by too many hours of operation. Therefore it could not restart the supply.

Naive blamed power cycling. But that resistor failed due to too many hours of operation (a manufacturing defect). Power cycling gets blamed becaue he was using observation (junk science) to make a conclusion. What caused your power brick to fail? Too many hours of operation? That's what an autopsy would discover.

Can the power brick be opened? Have repaired a few. In one HP power brick, a cold solder joint caused it to not work. A problem that was apparent only when first plugged in. They blamed surges only because that is a popular excuse.

Power loss does not cause electronics damage. AC voltage typically stays sufficient OR cuts out completely. Appliances that might be damaged by low voltage are responsible for protecting themselves (ie air conditioner shuts itself off).

Griff;577740 wrote:

Damaged part: Toshiba AC/DC adapter model ADP-75SB AB
Table top material: hardwood over plywood ...

Being closer to a breaker box means a surge may seek earth ground via your laptop and its power brick. But nothing listed implies a good outgoing path to earth. No network cable. No phone line. Mouse cable not draped against a heat vent or baseboard heat. No concrete or linoleum floor. Chances are a surge would have found other paths (appliances) to earth meaning that a surge is a low probable explanation for power brick failure. A conclusion that is only as good as the few facts we have.

To have surge damage, a surge must have an outgoing path to earth. Also routine is to have a surge pass completely through the computer to not harm the computer, but harm the modem. A most common reason for modem damage is AC electric. But your post implies no good outgoing path; making damage due to a surge low on the probability scale.

Thanks tw. I'll look into opening the brick. You may be on to something with the hours of operation. I wonder if that is why they spec a higher wattage on the replacement? We're using a wireless router so there really are not any other paths that I can see.