I Know Nothing About Knives, Really...

...do you?

I bought a new Gerber 625 , a basic single blade, lockback, nylon handle, half-serrated pocketknife for my general "I need a damn pocketknife" purposes. It will serve its purpose without frills, and that is all I needed.

However...this knife, fresh out of the hardware store case, seems to have only *one* sharp side to the blade. In other words, if you tilt the blade to a 45 degree angle to the left, it is quite sharp. Tilt it the other way...and it is dull as a butter knife.

My question...is this *normal*? Desireable? Standard practice? If not, what should I do about it (I mean to sharpen it properly). I typically use "Colorado Beaver Teeth", a pair of ceramic rods mounted in a small board at an appropriately predetermined angle, meant to allow you to run the blade down first one side, then the other, with the blade perpendiular to the board as you draw it across the rods. Seems to work pretty well on my larger Schrade lockback, but I'd still like advice from someone in the know.

Help?

Cheaper serated knifes are made this way , ( no offince on the cheap remark )

I personall DON'T like serated knifes , (unless your eating steak )
They are a bitch to sharpen , just try getting down in all those WICked looking grooves with a wet stone ( Yeh I know they make tool for this )
they don't cut verry well , they ssaw ok but don't genrerly cut like SHIT !!!
They are USELESS for cuttin the outer insulation off of comm cable ( what I use mine for 90% of the time )
get your self a nice streight blade gerber ,
http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_detail.html?s=GB6701
I like spyderco ,
http://www.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/spyderc/
or columbia river ,
http://www.knifecenter.com/knifecenter/crk/

Currently I am carrying an Emmerson ,
http://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/store_store.html?ttl=Emerson%20Hard%20Wear%20Series&srch=waDESCRIPTIONdatarq%3Dhard%20wear
It is a GOOOOOOD Blade !!! It takes and Holds a good edge .
Comfy in the hand and small and flat in the pocket , well made , GOOD BLADE !!!

Just my 2 cents

I like the combo thing of having the sawing action available on one blade, though. And the serrations aren't the problem...it is the straight part of the blade that is one-sided.

That baby should be sharp on both sides. I have a lot of Gerber knives. Out of the box they should slice a hair in half lengthwise. Okay, I'm exaggerating, but not by much.

IIRC, Gerbers have a 15 degree sharpening angle. Don't use one of those things you use on your kitchen knives, either.

Did you buy new, or used?

If you check the Gerber website, I think they will resharpen their knives to factory specs ... but only for their straight bladed knives.

I think they will resharpen their knives to factory specs ... but only for their straight bladed knives.

Again why I DON'T like serated knifes !!!

Are you saying that I should *not* use the ceramic rod arrangement, Wolf, or are you referring to a standard cooking knife sharpening steel?

Most ceramic rod V-arrangements will damage rather than sharpen a knife. You can't make the strokes consistent enough to actually sharpen, instead of dull, the blade. You can't use one of those on a serrated blade anyway.

Everything you ever wanted to know about knife sharpening. Don't let that "with an emphasis on necropsy equipment" subhead bother you at all.

The serrated portion of this half-serrated blade appears to be alright. It is the traditional portion of the blade that is one-sided.

So...what should I use to get this thing honed properly? Standard oiled whetstone and circular motion?

I've been using a Lansky system for many years. Works on any knife, fast, gives very sharp edges and best of all....it's idiot proof.

For 40 years I read every article, watched at every opportunity and tried every gadget, with hit or miss success. I knew people that could produce perfect results every time.........and now I are one. ;)

I can put a really nice edge on my framing chisels with Japanese water stones when I work at it but I do need to learn a lot about sharpening... kitchen full of dull knives as we speak.

We use this to keep our steel sharp around here, including serrated edges. Like this , ferinstance.
The video that comes with it is quite an edge-u-cation , too.

xoxoxoBruce wrote:

I've been using a Lansky system for many years. Works on any knife, fast, gives very sharp edges and best of all....it's idiot proof.

For 40 years I read every article, watched at every opportunity and tried every gadget, with hit or miss success. I knew people that could produce perfect results every time.........and now I are one. ;)

I'd like to see some demo of that system in action. Looking at the sets themselves doesn't seem to reveal much to my tiny little mind.

Until such time as I opt to become more thoroughgoing, I've picked up a small, one-piece cheapass combo carbide/ceramic gizmo. As Wolf noted, the inability to consitently regulate the stroke length, angle and pressure is probably going to prevent me from performing any field surgery with my knife, but with a very small amount of effort, it is now edged evenly and sharp enough to shave my arm with. I just showed the blade to the edge of a piece of copier paper and the paper parted voluntarily upon the sight.

Not perfect by a long shot, but I can now at least consider it functional until such time as I get a real system.

The theory behind the knife edge is simple, I'm amazed at how complicated all the sharpeners make it seem. The trick is that *all* knives are serrated at the atomic level. The sharpener creates sharp atoms, and the steel straightener gets them all pointed in the same direction. There's no magic behind sharpening; just drag the stone in the direction you want the serrations to point, then do the same with the straightener. To figure out which way the edge leans, drag your thumb across the edge. Downward, not up; you don't want to cut it off.

I've had so much luck with the straightener that I just use the sharpening wheel on the electric can opener now. The stone is moving in the wrong direction (along the edge rather than across it) but the straighener makes up for that.

So to answer the original question, the sharp edge shouldn't lean to either the left or the right, it should point straight down. Use the straightener with heavy pressure to unkink the edge, then gradually reduce the pressure to straighten the edge and form those nanoscale serrations.

Elspode wrote:

I'd like to see some demo of that system in action. Looking at the sets themselves doesn't seem to reveal much to my tiny little mind.

Simple, you have a choice of several grits of stone or diamond hone but no matter what you use, every stroke is at the same angle as the last one. :)

Its starting to make sense...but what moves? The knife or the hone? Looks like you pivot the hone from the bracket while the knife is in a fixed position.

the gold colored part is the stone , you can put the stone a different angles , and you move the stone accross the blade ,

I have one as well , it works well

Bruce is right on. I've used one of the Lansky kits for years. But only time I use mine is when I do all my knives. You shouldn't let your knife get so dull before sharping. I touch mine up ever few days with a ceramic from a big light bulb. Rain tomorrow I'll lay out all the junk I've bought, stole and accumulated over the years to sharpen with and make a photo. OH BOY, bet ya'll "cain't" can't wait. BTW don't buy one of the clamps. You can get a small c-clamp and tack a bolt, all thread to it a lot cheaper. IMHO.

Curious: what material do they use to make decent knives these days? I've noticed that most manufacturers never even tell you what material their blades are made of.

I dislike non-serrated blades, unless someone can tell me how to slice through a section of polypropylene braided rope with a non-serrated pocketknife blade without struggling like an idiot. Using a saw motion with a normal blade seems like a lot of work with little to show for it.

Well your not shopping in the right place, but you're right about cutting any kind of rope, it's hell on a knife. Rubber also. Me I don't cut rope and hate serrated blades. For poly rope, burn it into or hacksaw, save your knife.
I've seen an un-scientific contest preformed offshore as to who's knife would cut the most rope. As in manila rope. Hell they would @#$%up 300 feet of rope. BTW the strongest man won. Had nothing to do with how sharp the knife. :smack: BTW google is your friend :lol: http://users.ameritech.net/knives/steels.htm

Well, here's an interesting for some of the Cellar 'womyn'.

My dad used to just spit on a stone. I think this makes me a hick.:blush:

Just look at all those contraptions.oooh and I want one of those voodoo knife holders
richlevy :)

This SOG Flash has been my knife of choice for awhile. The blade requires you push on it to open, but after it gets started it springs open something akin to a switchblade. The one-handed open has proven useful and convient. I haven't bothered to sharped the serrations, yet, and with as sharp as they seem to be despite all the abuse there is a chance I might never do it for the life of the blade.

I find this article both amusing and disturbing.

Children as young as seven are regularly carrying knives, according to a BBC investigation. ... Friends of hers admitted it was very common for children to carry knives - in fact they claimed to know of one who had a pocket knife at the age of seven.

My god! Those poor children! Wait-- wha? Why is this a big deal? Should we all be concerned that children own and carry knives? I was given a pocket knife when I was six (as was every kid my age that I knew), as it was considered an important tool everyone should learn to use and carry.

So, then, I started to wonder if the British were absolutely crazy. The answer: Yes, they are.

A&E doctors are calling for a ban on long pointed kitchen knives to reduce deaths from stabbing. A team from West Middlesex University Hospital said violent crime is on the increase - and kitchen knives are used in as many as half of all stabbings.

What happened to our friends across the pond to make them fear pointy objects?

The study found links between easy access to domestic knives and violent assault are long established.

So, uh, does this absolutely baseless study actually indicate that everyone that owns a pointed knife is very likely to stab someone? What the hell is wrong with these people?

So my kid carrying her foil into school might be problematic in the UK?

Britain is quickly reaching the point where "Defending yourself against an attacker armed with fresh fruit" is no longer satire.

Yeah, but you can do it with a gun.

wolf wrote:

That baby should be sharp on both sides. I have a lot of Gerber knives. Out of the box they should slice a hair in half lengthwise. Okay, I'm exaggerating, but not by much.

...Not by much at all.

I've always bought Gerber knives, and I've gotta say the factory edge they put on them is quite astounding. Sharp as fuck. You can really ruin it though if you're not too great at sharpening knives yourself. As far as only one side of the sharpened half being actually sharp, I';m not sure about that. Maybe it's just the type of Gerber you bought? Either way, you should'nt have a problem chiseling your way through stuff with it.

wolf wrote:

Britain is quickly reaching the point where "Defending yourself against an attacker armed with fresh fruit" is no longer satire.

"Now, it's quite simple to defend yourself against a man armed with a banana. First of all you force him to drop the banana; then, second, you eat the banana, thus disarming him. You have now rendered him 'elpless."

Elspode wrote:

Yeah, but you can do it with a gun.

but then there's the noise police.....:eek:

Noise police? Heh, shoot 'em. :D

While it isn't a knife, yesterday I got a companion piece to go with my Gerber Applegate-Fairbairn:

<img src="http://www.gerbertools.com/Img_L/5780.jpg" width="200" align="right"/>
<a href="http://www.surefire.com/maxexp/main/co_disp/displ/prrfnbr/1132/sesent/00">
<img src="http://www.surefire.com/surefire/content/e2d_full.jpg"/>
</a>

Mmmm... Surefire lights kick a lot of ass. I wish they didn't eat batteries as quickly as they did, though. They last forever sitting in the heat of the car and such, but if you don't buy them in bulk you're going to cough up $1.75/battery or more.

Kitsune wrote:

Mmmm... Surefire lights kick a lot of ass. I wish they didn't eat batteries as quickly as they did, though. They last forever sitting in the heat of the car and such, but if you don't buy them in bulk you're going to cough up $1.75/battery or more.

True enough. But since I bought Gwennie an E2D also (she wanted one for her birthday), it makes sense for our household to buy batteries direct from Surefire in bulk: 72 for $125==a bit more then two for a dollar, and they have a ten year shelf life. Also, this isn't a tool for ordinary reading-under-the-covers type illumination; not every lighting job requires 60 lumens. But some do.

Well, I am a little on the cheap side, and I can't justify a $100 handheld flashlight. This is a $40 Circuit City light that uses 3 AAA batteries. I can use NIMH rechargables if I want to. I think I'll wait until it comes down in price, though. The only thing it's missing is the eye gouger bezel.

richlevy wrote:

Well, I am a little on the cheap side, and I can't justify a $100 handheld flashlight.

Well, that's a different tool for a different job. I'd never use the Surefire in the cockpit, for example (other than as a landing light in the event that the airplane's was disabled...there's folks who have had to do that).

MaggieL wrote:

(other than as a landing light in the event that the airplane's was disabled...there's folks who have had to do that).

Riiight. :rolleyes:

Kitsune wrote:

Riiight. :rolleyes:

It's believable to me.

I've landed airplanes at night with both the taxi and landing lights burned out...and used my 5-cell Maglight to taxi to the hangar. Both lights in a Cessna Cardinal are in the cowling under the engine, and are subject to a *lot* of vibration; the bulbs fail frequently. Lose them both and you land in the dark...a maneuver that is practiced during primary instruction.

KristopherA wrote:

Blackout in the sky
While flying one night from Little Rock, Arkansas, all the lights went out in my aircraft, including my landing light. I was about one hour outside of my home base. I used my SureFire C2 Centurion® with a red filter — so as not to degrade my night vision — to read my airspeed indicator, directional gyro, tachometer and attitude indicator. During this time the air traffic controller informed me that, while they had me on radar, they were unable to establish visual contact. As I lined up for approach I removed the red filter and began flashing my SureFire at the tower until they saw me. I was also able to use the C2 as my landing light, which was a great help on a moonless night! Thank you for building such reliable and bright lights. From now on I never leave for a flight without making sure I have my SureFire with me.

Kristopher A.
Norman, OK

I have recently come into possession of a sharpening system for my knives that seems to work fairly well and puts on a predictable, sharp edge. I now use the Lansky Sharpening System. Wish I had the link handy but you all know how to Google.

It did a good job resharpening my dullest (expendable) knife. I will be doing my other three in the near future now that I know how to assemble it and use it properly.

Brian

xoxoxoBruce posted upthread about Lansky, with a link and photos.

My dear, you assume that I have read this entire thread and actually absorbed any of it.

BrianR wrote:

My dear, you assume that I have read this entire thread and actually absorbed any of it.

Not at all...I know that you haven't, because of your comment and because you're on the road and frequently bandwidth challenged, and I assumed that's why you hadn't noticed the upthread. So I just stuck in a pointer because I'm *not* bandwidth challenged anymore because 1) I'm now employed again and 2) I have broadband at home because (see (1)).

Congratulations. I figured that out already because you have mentioned a boss twice that I saw. I'm happy for you. Thanks for the pointer, saved me and everyone else from Googling. I'm mostly hopeless at Googling and always need someone to do it for me or all I get is porn links and Amazon adverts.

Well then you should turn off the personalized results.

Undertoad wrote:

Well then you should turn off the personalized results.

Or don't search for "bukkake with super-saver shipping" :-)

It comes with super saver shipping!!???

I'm SO there!

richlevy wrote:

Well, I am a little on the cheap side, and I can't justify a $100 handheld flashlight. This is a $40 Circuit City light that uses 3 AAA batteries. I can use NIMH rechargables if I want to. I think I'll wait until it comes down in price, though. The only thing it's missing is the eye gouger bezel.

It's down to $20 for the next few days, so I'm getting one. Anyone have any ideas on how I can upgrade this for personal protection?

Duct tape it to a lead pipe?

Happy Monkey wrote:

Duct tape it to a lead pipe?

I was thinking broken glass and super glue, but I like where you're going with this.;)

Attach it to one of these ,
http://www.mossberg.com/pcatalog/Law.htm

richlevy wrote:

It's down to $20 for the next few days, so I'm getting one. Anyone have any ideas on how I can upgrade this for personal protection?

Superglue it under the slide of a Glock.

Other than that ... the best personal protection flashlight is the 6 D-Cell Maglite. The Streamlight (Locally made) version is good, but all the weight on theirs comes from the batteries, the Maglite starts heavy.

Now having seen ZippyT's answer ... I want that pistol grip Mossberg.

you need a class 3 for that ,

wolf wrote:

Superglue it under the slide of a Glock.

Other than that ... the best personal protection flashlight is the 6 D-Cell Maglite. The Streamlight (Locally made) version is good, but all the weight on theirs comes from the batteries, the Maglite starts heavy.

Actually, I have a 5-D Brinkman which I bought at least a decade ago. The newer Maglites seem a little lighter. The aluminum of the Brinkman is thick. I don't know if the newer ones are the same. It always seems that the more a company is in business, the more of a chance that someone has found a way to cut a few corners.

My own Maglite is at least ... umm ... two and a half to three cars old ... shit. 19 years.

I've got a 5-cell Maglite too...in the car and for preflight. It's not that much heavier than the batteries.

Rich, if you want personal protection, you want more than a flashlight. Want to learn to shoot? You live in PA. Pink Pistols meet every third Saturday.

I bet your Circuit City special doesn't put out 60 lumens, either.

zippyt wrote:

you need a class 3 for that

With a cooperative CLEO and a pile of dollars you can get a Class 3.

But Stargate SG-1 fans will be interested to know there's a new version of this available:

It's got a legal-length barrel (not pictured here), is semiauto only and has non-armor-piercing ammo; all requirements to make it available to civikians without a Class 3.

You can get the standard capacity magazines though. Nice if you might run into Goa'ulds in your neighborhood.

MaggieL wrote:

With a cooperative CLEO and a pile of dollars you can get a Class 3.

But Stargate SG-1 fans will be interested to know there's a new version of this available:

It's got a legal-length barrel (not pictured here), is semiauto only and has non-armor-piercing ammo; all requirements to make it available to civikians without a Class 3.

You can get the standard capacity magazines though. Nice if you might run into Goa'ulds in your neighborhood.

Isn't that a Belgian F2000? That's an assault rifle. I assume that the civilian versions have small clips?

That appears to be the P90. The newer carbine version is the PS90. It can be had with 30; or, 10 round magazines. How much reach does it have with a bayonet? How do you functionally mount a tactical flashlight on it? Though these questions may be of no concern to someone who works with a Gerber 625 or Circuit City flashlight, it always comes down to selecting the right tool for the right job. :)





PS: I'm still using my original (8 years old) Surefire 9P. It was discontinued for awhile; but, they started making it again with slight cosmetic changes. :cool:

NoBoxes wrote:

How much reach does it have with a bayonet?

Not too damn much., considering it's a 16" barrel, and in a bullpup configuration too. No bayonet lugs, AFAIK.

NoBoxes wrote:

How do you functionally mount a tactical flashlight on it?

Ghod, don't you watch SG-1? :-) Comes in a triple rail version.

I hear the stock sight suck rocks (especially in snow) though.

Better pic:

zippyt wrote:

you need a class 3 for that ,

Why? If they give you any shit, just shoot 'em. :lol:

xoxoxoBruce wrote:

Why? If they give you any shit, just shoot 'em. :lol:

Because the FFL won't give it to you until *after* you have your Class 3.

NoBoxes wrote:

Though these questions may be of no concern to someone who works with a Gerber 625 or Circuit City flashlight, it always comes down to selecting the right tool for the right job. :)

And yet, duct tape seems to solve these problems very well.

Actually, instead of a Gerber, I have a K-Mart penknife with an unconditional lifetime guarantee which I am saving, along with the original sales receipt, so that sometime in the distant future one of my great-great-grandchildren can take the dull rusty broken knife to the nearest store (via transporter) and demand a refund or replacement.

richlevy wrote:

Actually, instead of a Gerber, I have a K-Mart penknife with an unconditional lifetime guarantee which I am saving, along with the original sales receipt, so that sometime in the distant future one of my great-great-grandchildren can take the dull rusty broken knife to the nearest store (via transporter) and demand a refund or replacement.

...where they will no doubt be told that the lifetime in question was yours.

Based on what I've seen of K-mart lately, you're pretty likely to outlive it. Wal-mart is kicking their ass on the downscale side and Target on the upscale side...and both have clear intention to take the other on on their own ground. K-mart will be the first casuality.

richlevy wrote:

And yet, duct tape seems to solve these problems very well.

Nah...that only works in Doom III. A Picatinny rail is the only way to go.

Originally Posted by NoBoxes
How much reach does it have with a bayonet?

Originally Posted by MaggieL
Not too damn much., considering it's a 16" barrel, and in a bullpup configuration too. No bayonet lugs, AFAIK.

Well that's just great, not one picatinny for a bayonet, now we have to carry a sword too! :)

Originally Posted by NoBoxes
How do you functionally mount a tactical flashlight on it?

Originally Posted by MaggieL
Ghod, don't you watch SG-1? :-) Comes in a triple rail version.

Well that's just great, not one rail for a bayonet, now they have to carry an alien weapon too! :lol:

What's with the bayonet fixation? If that's your style, get an M1A1 and put some mass behind it; it's pointless (nyuk nyuk) on a P90: Combat Tupperware.

In the mean time please enjoy a quiet moment:

Bayonet? Why let them get that close? The whole point of a firearm is to reach out and touch someone. :eyebrow:

[HTML]Because the FFL won't give it to you until *after* you have your Class 3.[/HTML] There are ways.

Yeah, just buy the kit. Anyone can do that.

@ MaggieL & xoxoxoBruce:

Focus is increasing on Close Quarters Battle (CQB) and adversaries are wearing body armor. The rifle (or carbine) is a versatile individual combat weapon; but, armor piercing rounds can pass through hostiles and/or walls and/or buildings and hit friendlies (combatants and non-combatants). Even standard rifle rounds pose this problem. The problem can to be avoided; but, rapidly transitioning to a sidearm, from holding a longarm in the ready position, is not most combatants' forte. Additionally, most are trained to shoot center of mass until the adversary goes down rather than to adjust their point of aim to compensate for body armor. On the other hand, a proper blade can defeat soft body armor and reach vital organs even if advanced obliquely. When situations like this were anticipated, I was issued a HK MP5 SD3 (sound suppressed version) ; however, that was the exception, not the rule.

Knowledge of weapons and knowledge of tactics are two different things. Those who have exercised both professionally look for compatability. A bayonet can sometimes be downright synergistic. The bullpup rifle configuration may seem to have an advantage in manuverability; but, it can be less versatile. That's one reason why we haven't standardized on it. Of course, we can always forget about tactics and use the universal solution: "Kill them all, let God sort 'em out." :(

NoBoxes wrote:

The bullpup rifle configuration may seem to have an advantage in manuverability; but, it can be less versatile. That's one reason why we haven't standardized on it.

I don't think there was ever an intention that the P-90 become a standard issue weapon for infantry; it was developed as a PDW for vehicle drivers...kind of a spiritual successor to the grease gun. And one design criteron was penetrating body armor, hence the AP ammo.

This showed up in my daily surf...haven't read it in detail yet but the writer appears to be quite knowlegable.