The Problem of Darfur

DanaC · 07-23-2004, 04:31 PM

So.....at least ten thousand people have been killed by the Janjaweed and approximately one million displaced .....rape and violence are being used against innocent villagers because of their ethnicity

What should be done? Is this one of those occassions where it would be morally and politically appropriate to intervene with force? Is this an internal matter to be dealt with by the government of Sudan with international pressure being applied as best it can?

smoothmoniker · 07-23-2004, 04:53 PM

What would be best is a UN peacekeeping force comprised of primarily soldiers from Arab countries. They desire the patina of respectability that comes from participation in the International Community, why should they not shoulder the burden of securing liberty and justice where it is lacking?

-sm

jaguar · 07-23-2004, 05:03 PM

I hear the British are looking at sending some boys in. Wouldn't take too much. Think back to the way the SAS dealt with the West Side Boyz a few years back when they took a couple of British soldiers hostage, by the time they were done the 3 remaining West Side Boyz were hightailing it for Liberia.

SM - because we want to stop people getting gang raped and killed, not play political hot potato. I think after the debacle in Rawanda poor old Kofi feels that he can't afford to let yet another african massacre happen under his watch.

smoothmoniker · 07-23-2004, 05:10 PM

I've got no interest in playing political hot potatoe. I have a vested interest in seeing those who laude the international community come to terms with what that prhase means. Yes, this must be resolved quickly. Isn't it better if that resolution has an Arab face to it?

-sm

jaguar · 07-23-2004, 05:15 PM

Not really, UN forces are meant to be non-partisan, a western force is more likely to be nonpartisan in this kind of scrap than an arab one, considering the group doing the nasties stuff is a bunch of hardass arabian riders with AKs. The armies of places like Syria are a liability and more likely to add to the chaos than stop it.

The African Union or whatever it's called seems to be slowly getting it's act together, one can hope for miricles.

DanaC · 07-23-2004, 05:18 PM

Actually I think it would be a great idea except for the logistics of it. To put such a plan into place would take more time and potentially be less successful than sending in experienced peacekeepers or an army tried and tested in that kind of fighting. Time is something the people of Darfur do not have

(edited to say, shit your right Jag, what the hell am I thinking? The janjaweed are arabic african fighting black african)

jaguar · 07-23-2004, 05:21 PM

Well it's more complex than that. It appears a deal with struck between them and the government - the raids have been heavily backed by the airforce doing bombing runs before the riders arrived to get on with the whole rape and pillage side of things. It's fundamentally muslim vs christian but there are race issues as well just to make it spicy.

DanaC · 07-23-2004, 05:22 PM

*shakes head* what a mess

tw · 07-25-2004, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanaC

*shakes head* what a mess

I suspect you don't know how big the mess really is. Next door in Northern Uganda is another 'massacre' ongoing on a smaller scale. Congo's eastern half had long been a territory of civil war and rebels hiding out to attach other countries - Rwanda. Burundi lately has been stable. Ethiopia has always been chaotic even after Eriteria broke away, became friendly, and then went to war again. Over at the other end of equitorial nations is Nigeria, Ivory Coast, Sierra Leone, and Liberia - all having been fully involved in war. Nigeria with its 116 million people has at least become peaceful enough as to send 'peacekeeper' troops to those other counties.

Sudan's Dafur is but a silly little example of what has been ongoing throughout most all of Africa. Most common problem - all armies kidnap the kids because they are easiest to brainwash. A legacy of kids without education and educated best to be murders.

And yet that is not the biggest problem in Africa. Clean water is still a larger problem.

DanaC · 07-26-2004, 02:26 AM

Actually I was aware of the bigger mess . The trouble in Darfur is the scale that the displacements are happening on. Over a million have fled so far. The refugee situation in Chad is critical.

Catwoman · 07-26-2004, 04:56 AM

An Arab face may pacify but would only serve to reinforce the validity of the racial divisions at the root of this conflict.

Carbonated_Brains · 07-26-2004, 09:23 AM

I think we should draft, arm, and deploy America's entire cast of Hollywood celebrities.

Catwoman · 07-26-2004, 09:25 AM

... and news reporters.

tw · 07-26-2004, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carbonated_Brains

I think we should draft, arm, and deploy America's entire cast of Hollywood celebrities.

What! And leave Osama bin Laden free to move about Afghanistan and Pakistan? Oh. Wait. He already moves about those countries freely. I forgot.

Carbonated_Brains · 07-26-2004, 10:22 AM

I bet they could find him if they just followed the big long power cord attached to his DIALYSIS MACHINE

07-23-2004, 04:31 PM	#1
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	The Problem of Darfur So.....at least ten thousand people have been killed by the Janjaweed and approximately one million displaced .....rape and violence are being used against innocent villagers because of their ethnicity What should be done? Is this one of those occassions where it would be morally and politically appropriate to intervene with force? Is this an internal matter to be dealt with by the government of Sudan with international pressure being applied as best it can?

07-23-2004, 05:03 PM	#3
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	I hear the British are looking at sending some boys in. Wouldn't take too much. Think back to the way the SAS dealt with the West Side Boyz a few years back when they took a couple of British soldiers hostage, by the time they were done the 3 remaining West Side Boyz were hightailing it for Liberia. SM - because we want to stop people getting gang raped and killed, not play political hot potato. I think after the debacle in Rawanda poor old Kofi feels that he can't afford to let yet another african massacre happen under his watch. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

07-23-2004, 05:10 PM	#4
smoothmoniker to live and die in LA Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,090	I've got no interest in playing political hot potatoe. I have a vested interest in seeing those who laude the international community come to terms with what that prhase means. Yes, this must be resolved quickly. Isn't it better if that resolution has an Arab face to it? -sm __________________ to live and die in LA

07-23-2004, 05:15 PM	#5
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	Not really, UN forces are meant to be non-partisan, a western force is more likely to be nonpartisan in this kind of scrap than an arab one, considering the group doing the nasties stuff is a bunch of hardass arabian riders with AKs. The armies of places like Syria are a liability and more likely to add to the chaos than stop it. The African Union or whatever it's called seems to be slowly getting it's act together, one can hope for miricles. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

07-23-2004, 05:21 PM	#7
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	Well it's more complex than that. It appears a deal with struck between them and the government - the raids have been heavily backed by the airforce doing bombing runs before the riders arrived to get on with the whole rape and pillage side of things. It's fundamentally muslim vs christian but there are race issues as well just to make it spicy. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

07-23-2004, 04:53 PM	#2
smoothmoniker to live and die in LA Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 2,090	What would be best is a UN peacekeeping force comprised of primarily soldiers from Arab countries. They desire the patina of respectability that comes from participation in the International Community, why should they not shoulder the burden of securing liberty and justice where it is lacking? -sm

07-23-2004, 05:18 PM	#6
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Actually I think it would be a great idea except for the logistics of it. To put such a plan into place would take more time and potentially be less successful than sending in experienced peacekeepers or an army tried and tested in that kind of fighting. Time is something the people of Darfur do not have (edited to say, shit your right Jag, what the hell am I thinking? The janjaweed are arabic african fighting black african)

07-23-2004, 05:22 PM	#8
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	shakes head what a mess

07-26-2004, 02:26 AM	#10
DanaC We have to go back, Kate! Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Yorkshire Posts: 25,964	Actually I was aware of the bigger mess . The trouble in Darfur is the scale that the displacements are happening on. Over a million have fled so far. The refugee situation in Chad is critical.

07-26-2004, 04:56 AM	#11
Catwoman stalking a Tom Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: on the edge of the english channel Posts: 1,000	An Arab face may pacify but would only serve to reinforce the validity of the racial divisions at the root of this conflict. __________________ I've decided I'm not going to have a signature anymore.

07-26-2004, 09:23 AM	#12
Carbonated_Brains Does it show up here when I type? Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Between the smoky layers of a prosciutto sandwich! Posts: 355	I think we should draft, arm, and deploy America's entire cast of Hollywood celebrities.

07-26-2004, 09:25 AM	#13
Catwoman stalking a Tom Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: on the edge of the english channel Posts: 1,000	... and news reporters. __________________ I've decided I'm not going to have a signature anymore.

07-26-2004, 10:22 AM	#15
Carbonated_Brains Does it show up here when I type? Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Between the smoky layers of a prosciutto sandwich! Posts: 355	I bet they could find him if they just followed the big long power cord attached to his DIALYSIS MACHINE

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