Hamas founder killed

elSicomoro · 03-21-2004, 10:13 PM

So say the BBC and the Chicago Tribune.

If true, does this mean the beginning of the end for Hamas...or is the mother of all suicide bombings near?

jaguar · 03-21-2004, 11:28 PM

He's the spiritual leader, he ha no operation role.
It is however, going to cause the shit to really hit the fan, they're gonna go fucking nuts.

smoothmoniker · 03-22-2004, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaguar
they're gonna go fucking nuts.

good god, what might that look like? think they'll start strapping bombs onto mothers and children, and sending them into public places to blow themselves up?

-sm

russotto · 03-22-2004, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaguar
they're gonna go fucking nuts.

Good. Maybe they'll get sloppy and Israel can take out a few more of them.

Troubleshooter · 03-22-2004, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sycamore
If true, does this mean the beginning of the end for Hamas...or is the mother of all suicide bombings near?

These people have been killing each other for time out of mind. I quit paying more that peripheral attention to the whole thing a long time ago.

My solution is to send each country a billion dollars of semtex or C4, in half pound blocks, with detonators.

Stand back and watch the devastations begin.

jaguar · 03-22-2004, 12:55 PM

You reaction worries me smoothmoniker and rusotto. Next time your country or one of your allies are hit by a terrorist attack by an Islamofacist group, you'll know why they're so pissed off with your country.

When Sharon visited the holy sites in 2001 he killed what had been a mssive lul in attacks in one fell swoop. Imagine what this is going to cause.

Kinda pisses me off if the US grabbed Isreal by the scruff of the neck and told them to stop this conflict or cut off all aid maybe it'd be safe enough for me to go a-roving with a camera without having to wear 45 layers of kevlar labelled press.

ladysycamore · 03-22-2004, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sycamore
So say the BBC and the Chicago Tribune.

If true, does this mean the beginning of the end for Hamas...or is the mother of all suicide bombings near?

IMO, it means shit's gonna hit the fan...and hard!

Quote:

good god, what might that look like? think they'll start strapping bombs onto mothers and children, and sending them into public places to blow themselves up?

I thought they were already doing that. (at least, with women).

jaguar · 03-22-2004, 01:47 PM

Quote:

I thought they were already doing that. (at least, with women).

I think that was his point.

russotto · 03-23-2004, 01:29 PM

At this point, I don't care why Islamofacists are pissed off at the US or any other country. Their original reasons for being terrorist motherfuckers were mostly illegitimate, and the additional reasons piled on since then are mostly responses to their terrorist motherfuckerdom. Worrying about why they are pissed off makes sense only if you want to appease them. I'm not interested in appeasing them; I want them destroyed.

Israel, of course, is even LESS worried about appeasing them -- because they know the only way they can do it is to cease to exist.

jaguar · 03-23-2004, 01:35 PM

So rusotto, what do ya wanna do? Nuke the middle east? Kill of those fucking raghead sand niggers eh?

Dump you in a narrow strip of land, kill half your realtives, take away your job and treat you like a piece of shit and see how you feel.

jaguar · 03-23-2004, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Israel, of course, is even LESS worried about appeasing them -- because they know the only way they can do it is to cease to exist.

See this, this is what both you and UT don't seem to get. People get angry for a reason. There a deep, fundamental issues in Islamic society globally, issues of sovereignty, cultural power and economic power that need to be address. As I've said, countless times before - history has shown when people are angry is creates a fertile environment for extremist leaders who give people something to vent their anger at to rise to power. Hiter, the communist revolution in Russia and now OBL. Even if you kill them, you only make it worse, it's a meme and a powerful one. The only real, viable long term solution is to address the underlying issues of regional instability and economic stagnation. Do that, make people happy and wealthy and they won't be so worried about the great satan.

Undertoad · 03-23-2004, 01:48 PM

It would really ruin your point to learn that many of the terrorists are from elite families in countries with per capita GDP on par with the rest of the world.

Happy Monkey · 03-23-2004, 02:17 PM

No it wouldn't. The children of elite families are prone to disillusionment if they come in contact with the desperately poor. It's a common theme in literature - see "The Prince and the Pauper," and "Metropolis". Of course, in real life, they don't always learn the right lessons and save the day. But it is not the poverty of the individual that did it, it is the cultural poverty.

And GDP per capita is a meaningless statistic. The elite families make tons, and the masses make nothing.

Beestie · 03-23-2004, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by jaguar
See this, this is what both you and UT don't seem to get. People get angry for a reason....

What was Hitler's reason for slaughtering 6 million Jews? What was Stalin's reason for assasinating upwards of 30 million of his own countrymen? What was Japan's reason for raping Nanking? And these are just the highlights from the last 60 years.

At some point, the madness simply has to stop. And those folks who are interested in chit-chat about the reason while the rivers and streams overflow with blood are just as guilty as the perpetrators as far as I'm concerned.

I find the whole exercise of intellectualizing about brutality and murder a fool's game at worst and at best, a very sophisticated form of denial and self-delusion.

But, don't let me interrupt you.

jaguar · 03-23-2004, 11:39 PM

Er no, and no.

First factor you're missing is popular support. Without popular support these guys would be a reprehensible fringe with a tiny following, like every other group of nutters. Instead, due to the latent anger in the islamic world, they could hide in any major city in the Middle easy most probably. They can recruit those willing do die for the cause by the thousands. YOu think if hiter had tried to gain power in a stable, non-impoverished Germany not still being hogtied by the versaii treaty he would have had any luck? The difference here is you're dealing with something worse, just just a man, but a meme, you can't just roll in with tanks and kill it, that only makes it stronger, vindicates what they say about the great satan, how can you not see that?

So what do you want do beestie? I honestly don't get it. Build a big fucking pit in Sudi and put every late sandnigger terrorist in it? Ban them all from the western world? Kill every last one? Because geez, wasting militants sure stopped the attacks in Isreal didn't it. You're dealing with a hydra, chopping off heads is not going to kill it. How is it denial? All I'm denying is that killing people is going to make this all go away. It might satisfy that base lust for revenge but it sure isn't going to stop the attacks coming, or the popular support go away.

I should point out though that OBL et al getting 50cal between the eyes is still a good thing, It's just not the answer.

03-21-2004, 10:13 PM	#1
elSicomoro Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 12,486	Hamas founder killed So say the BBC and the Chicago Tribune. If true, does this mean the beginning of the end for Hamas...or is the mother of all suicide bombings near?

03-21-2004, 11:28 PM	#2
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	He's the spiritual leader, he ha no operation role. It is however, going to cause the shit to really hit the fan, they're gonna go fucking nuts. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

03-22-2004, 12:55 PM	#6
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	You reaction worries me smoothmoniker and rusotto. Next time your country or one of your allies are hit by a terrorist attack by an Islamofacist group, you'll know why they're so pissed off with your country. When Sharon visited the holy sites in 2001 he killed what had been a mssive lul in attacks in one fell swoop. Imagine what this is going to cause. Kinda pisses me off if the US grabbed Isreal by the scruff of the neck and told them to stop this conflict or cut off all aid maybe it'd be safe enough for me to go a-roving with a camera without having to wear 45 layers of kevlar labelled press. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

03-23-2004, 01:35 PM	#10
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	So rusotto, what do ya wanna do? Nuke the middle east? Kill of those fucking raghead sand niggers eh? Dump you in a narrow strip of land, kill half your realtives, take away your job and treat you like a piece of shit and see how you feel. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

03-23-2004, 02:17 PM	#13
Happy Monkey I think this line's mostly filler. Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: DC Posts: 13,575	No it wouldn't. The children of elite families are prone to disillusionment if they come in contact with the desperately poor. It's a common theme in literature - see "The Prince and the Pauper," and "Metropolis". Of course, in real life, they don't always learn the right lessons and save the day. But it is not the poverty of the individual that did it, it is the cultural poverty. And GDP per capita is a meaningless statistic. The elite families make tons, and the masses make nothing. __________________ _________________ \|...............\| We live in the nick of times. \| Len 17, Wid 3 \| \|_______________\| [pics]

03-23-2004, 01:29 PM	#9
russotto Professor Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 1,788	At this point, I don't care why Islamofacists are pissed off at the US or any other country. Their original reasons for being terrorist motherfuckers were mostly illegitimate, and the additional reasons piled on since then are mostly responses to their terrorist motherfuckerdom. Worrying about why they are pissed off makes sense only if you want to appease them. I'm not interested in appeasing them; I want them destroyed. Israel, of course, is even LESS worried about appeasing them -- because they know the only way they can do it is to cease to exist.

03-23-2004, 01:48 PM	#12
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	It would really ruin your point to learn that many of the terrorists are from elite families in countries with per capita GDP on par with the rest of the world.

03-23-2004, 11:39 PM	#15
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	Er no, and no. First factor you're missing is popular support. Without popular support these guys would be a reprehensible fringe with a tiny following, like every other group of nutters. Instead, due to the latent anger in the islamic world, they could hide in any major city in the Middle easy most probably. They can recruit those willing do die for the cause by the thousands. YOu think if hiter had tried to gain power in a stable, non-impoverished Germany not still being hogtied by the versaii treaty he would have had any luck? The difference here is you're dealing with something worse, just just a man, but a meme, you can't just roll in with tanks and kill it, that only makes it stronger, vindicates what they say about the great satan, how can you not see that? So what do you want do beestie? I honestly don't get it. Build a big fucking pit in Sudi and put every late sandnigger terrorist in it? Ban them all from the western world? Kill every last one? Because geez, wasting militants sure stopped the attacks in Isreal didn't it. You're dealing with a hydra, chopping off heads is not going to kill it. How is it denial? All I'm denying is that killing people is going to make this all go away. It might satisfy that base lust for revenge but it sure isn't going to stop the attacks coming, or the popular support go away. I should point out though that OBL et al getting 50cal between the eyes is still a good thing, It's just not the answer. __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain Last edited by jaguar; 03-23-2004 at 11:50 PM.

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