Record albums

xoxoxoBruce · 05-04-2003, 02:14 PM

I have about 1000 record albums. You know, those big black plastic things from museums. About 1/2 of them have been made available on CD but the others will probably never be.
Do any of you know of a magic box that will interface between my turntable and PC? Sort of an A/D converter, so I can make this music portable before it deteriorates further. Since the analog turntable signal is so small, I suppose there would have to be some sort of preamp at least but I really am clueless. Help.

Undertoad · 05-04-2003, 02:27 PM

(Cue theme: middle-aged maaaan!)

If you can get good sound into your sound card's input jack, there are many great programs out there that will happily take that analog input and convert it to whatever format you like. The problem in most cases is that the turntable itself will only produce a weird reduced un-amplified output which is basically what the sound is like coming from the pickup. (Y'know, the record needle.) This output has to be amplified in a special way.

Some turntables sold today already have that built in; the circuit in question could be referred to as "phono pre-amp". Older receivers all have a phono input jack, and if you plugged your turntable's output into that jack it would be "phono pre-amplified" before heading off to be amplified regularly.

Today only the most expensive receivers have a phono pre-amplified input; you have to pay something like $600 for your receiver in order to get it. Rat Shack carries a device that will do it for about $70. The actual worth of the circuit is less than $5, though.

Undertoad · 05-04-2003, 02:30 PM

...uh, forgot the last sentence: So, the sensible solution may be to find a really cheap old amplifier that somebody doesn't want, or to search for "phono pre-amp" on ebay.

Undertoad · 05-04-2003, 02:34 PM

Uh, forgot the sidebar:

About six months ago a friend of a friend wanted to start a business converting LPs to MP3 (or whatever format you wanted). The secret of the business would be that they only had to rip each LP once; after that they could use the master copy to create as many additional copies as people wanted. Then they looked into the legality of it, and found that the current legal status made it impossible.

Sad, because it was the best business idea I have ever heard.

xoxoxoBruce · 05-04-2003, 03:31 PM

So I plug the turntable into my preamp then take the preamp-out (which is analog) and go to my PC sound card instead of the preamp-in on the amplifier. The PC has a "SB Live 1024 Digital Sound Card" What ever that is, it doesn't sound like it takes analog signals? But hey, it took Walt Disney 10 years to convince me I needed a COLOR television.

Undertoad · 05-04-2003, 03:57 PM

If you pre-amp has a "phono in", you're golden. Look for a "line-in" jack on the sound card. It'll be an 1/8" female connector, tip-ring-sleeve for a three-way connection for stereo. Don't mistake a microphone input which will also be on the sound card.

Once you get something in - anything - there are a lot of programs out there that will "record" by taking that analog in and converting it to a WAV output file, on the fly, on demand.

I have not personally run it much but there is a shareware program called Soundprobe that looks almost exactly like the $500 program Sound Forge. With this program, you can record in the same format as CD, if you like - stereo, 44.1 khz, 16-bit. Or if you have disk space, you can go even higher in quality.

And then you can apply all kinds of pro audio things, if you like, such as removing pops and clicks and stuff. But the key is to find the beginning and the end of the sample so that the file contains only the bits you want.

(There are probably cheaper programs to do this sort of thing, and probably all kinds of $20 shareware programs that will do nearly as good a job.)

After you have the sampled song in WAV format you can then convert to whatever format you prefer, or just keep it in WAV format if you have a tremendous amount of disk space.

xoxoxoBruce · 05-04-2003, 04:01 PM

Cool! Thank You.

Bitmap · 05-04-2003, 05:23 PM

My dad(sorry Bruce don't mean to make you feeold) has been wanting to do this for quite some time now... i just didn't know who to ask. thanks UT and Thanks Bruce for asking.

xoxoxoBruce · 05-04-2003, 05:43 PM

No problem young fella.

05-05-2003, 05:45 AM

To go one step further, there was a program included with Adaptec Easy CD Creator version 3 (I believe) that was made specifically for this and worked rather well. It would start a new file after each track such that you could just start it playing and walk away. Then you edit away any excess sound, run the file through a de-noise-i-fyer and then convert to MP3. Yes, it really was that tedious back when I was doing it.

xoxoxoBruce · 05-06-2003, 08:54 PM

Thanks Dave.

Bitman · 05-07-2003, 02:43 AM

Depends on the quality you want. There are laser turntables that will play a disk without touching it, so no further wear. I believe they can see through surface dust. No idea about sound quality, but last I saw they cost multiple 10s of Ks of $s. They may be under 10K now.

I've heard good things about Cool Edit Pro. I think it comes with pop and hiss removal tools too.

I've also heard good things about external USB A/D converters. USB is plenty of bandwidth (CD is around 1.5 Mb/s), and the external box blocks ambient and computer interference.

ObBrag: I ripped an 8-track once; that was exciting.

xoxoxoBruce · 05-07-2003, 09:40 PM

Great info thanks.
I have two turntables. A thorens with an ortofon arm and a B&O. Both track at .4 grams and with a Dust Bug it keeps things pretty quiet.
Of course there is still wear, especially on albums like Ontinuous Performance by Stone The Crows or Dinosaur Swamps by The Flock. Albums like that couldn't even be replaced at the time so this is the only way to save them at all.
I really appreciate you guys helping me out here.

05-04-2003, 02:14 PM	#1
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Record albums I have about 1000 record albums. You know, those big black plastic things from museums. About 1/2 of them have been made available on CD but the others will probably never be. Do any of you know of a magic box that will interface between my turntable and PC? Sort of an A/D converter, so I can make this music portable before it deteriorates further. Since the analog turntable signal is so small, I suppose there would have to be some sort of preamp at least but I really am clueless. Help. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

05-04-2003, 03:31 PM	#5
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	So I plug the turntable into my preamp then take the preamp-out (which is analog) and go to my PC sound card instead of the preamp-in on the amplifier. The PC has a "SB Live 1024 Digital Sound Card" What ever that is, it doesn't sound like it takes analog signals? But hey, it took Walt Disney 10 years to convince me I needed a COLOR television. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

05-04-2003, 04:01 PM	#7
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Cool! Thank You. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

05-04-2003, 05:23 PM	#8
Bitmap Look who thinks he's clever Dan. Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Washington DC Metro Area. Fairfax city Posts: 226	My dad(sorry Bruce don't mean to make you feeold) has been wanting to do this for quite some time now... i just didn't know who to ask. thanks UT and Thanks Bruce for asking. Last edited by Bitmap; 05-04-2003 at 09:51 PM.

05-04-2003, 05:43 PM	#9
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	No problem young fella. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

05-04-2003, 02:27 PM	#2
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	(Cue theme: middle-aged maaaan!) If you can get good sound into your sound card's input jack, there are many great programs out there that will happily take that analog input and convert it to whatever format you like. The problem in most cases is that the turntable itself will only produce a weird reduced un-amplified output which is basically what the sound is like coming from the pickup. (Y'know, the record needle.) This output has to be amplified in a special way. Some turntables sold today already have that built in; the circuit in question could be referred to as "phono pre-amp". Older receivers all have a phono input jack, and if you plugged your turntable's output into that jack it would be "phono pre-amplified" before heading off to be amplified regularly. Today only the most expensive receivers have a phono pre-amplified input; you have to pay something like $600 for your receiver in order to get it. Rat Shack carries a device that will do it for about $70. The actual worth of the circuit is less than $5, though.

05-04-2003, 02:30 PM	#3
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	...uh, forgot the last sentence: So, the sensible solution may be to find a really cheap old amplifier that somebody doesn't want, or to search for "phono pre-amp" on ebay.

05-04-2003, 02:34 PM	#4
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Uh, forgot the sidebar: About six months ago a friend of a friend wanted to start a business converting LPs to MP3 (or whatever format you wanted). The secret of the business would be that they only had to rip each LP once; after that they could use the master copy to create as many additional copies as people wanted. Then they looked into the legality of it, and found that the current legal status made it impossible. Sad, because it was the best business idea I have ever heard.

05-04-2003, 03:57 PM	#6
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	If you pre-amp has a "phono in", you're golden. Look for a "line-in" jack on the sound card. It'll be an 1/8" female connector, tip-ring-sleeve for a three-way connection for stereo. Don't mistake a microphone input which will also be on the sound card. Once you get something in - anything - there are a lot of programs out there that will "record" by taking that analog in and converting it to a WAV output file, on the fly, on demand. I have not personally run it much but there is a shareware program called Soundprobe that looks almost exactly like the $500 program Sound Forge. With this program, you can record in the same format as CD, if you like - stereo, 44.1 khz, 16-bit. Or if you have disk space, you can go even higher in quality. And then you can apply all kinds of pro audio things, if you like, such as removing pops and clicks and stuff. But the key is to find the beginning and the end of the sample so that the file contains only the bits you want. (There are probably cheaper programs to do this sort of thing, and probably all kinds of $20 shareware programs that will do nearly as good a job.) After you have the sampled song in WAV format you can then convert to whatever format you prefer, or just keep it in WAV format if you have a tremendous amount of disk space.

05-05-2003, 05:45 AM	#10
dave Guest Posts: n/a	To go one step further, there was a program included with Adaptec Easy CD Creator version 3 (I believe) that was made specifically for this and worked rather well. It would start a new file after each track such that you could just start it playing and walk away. Then you edit away any excess sound, run the file through a de-noise-i-fyer and then convert to MP3. Yes, it really was that tedious back when I was doing it.

05-06-2003, 08:54 PM	#11
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Thanks Dave. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

05-07-2003, 02:43 AM	#12
Bitman cellar smellar Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: californy, baby! Posts: 403	Depends on the quality you want. There are laser turntables that will play a disk without touching it, so no further wear. I believe they can see through surface dust. No idea about sound quality, but last I saw they cost multiple 10s of Ks of $s. They may be under 10K now. I've heard good things about Cool Edit Pro. I think it comes with pop and hiss removal tools too. I've also heard good things about external USB A/D converters. USB is plenty of bandwidth (CD is around 1.5 Mb/s), and the external box blocks ambient and computer interference. ObBrag: I ripped an 8-track once; that was exciting. Last edited by Bitman; 05-07-2003 at 02:48 AM.

05-07-2003, 09:40 PM	#13
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Great info thanks. I have two turntables. A thorens with an ortofon arm and a B&O. Both track at .4 grams and with a Dust Bug it keeps things pretty quiet. Of course there is still wear, especially on albums like Ontinuous Performance by Stone The Crows or Dinosaur Swamps by The Flock. Albums like that couldn't even be replaced at the time so this is the only way to save them at all. I really appreciate you guys helping me out here. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)