Another Reason Not to Move to the UK

wolf · 10-26-2006, 01:53 AM

(not that I was in any danger of that anyway)

DNA database 'should include all'

Quote:

Tony Blair called yesterday for the national DNA database to be expanded to include every citizen.

He said there should be no limit on the development of the database because it was vital for catching serious criminals.

The Conservatives accused him of attempting to expand the DNA database by stealth and called for Parliament to vote on whether details of people who were innocent or not charged should be included against their wishes.

The Prime Minister said the public backed the extended use of DNA and urged police forces across the country to make use of technological advances to reopen thousands of unresolved "cold cases".

10-26-2006, 02:33 AM

I do not quite know why you think you COULD move to the United Kingdom anyway , Wolf ?

What skills do you have ?

9th Engineer · 10-26-2006, 12:45 PM

Why is this a bad thing? I think it's a long overdue improvement over fingerprinting (which should be a national database including everyone). Lets not get into conspiracy theory bullshit on this one though, it's an IDENTIFIER.

glatt · 10-26-2006, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

Why is this a bad thing? I think it's a long overdue improvement over fingerprinting (which should be a national database including everyone). Lets not get into conspiracy theory bullshit on this one though, it's an IDENTIFIER.

If I leave my DNA someplace, and a crime is committed there later by someone else, then I will be an instant suspect. At a minimum, that will be a hassle for me.

9th Engineer · 10-26-2006, 12:54 PM

They would be able to tell you had been there, but unless it's somewhere where you either shouldn't have been or very few other people had been I don't think you'd have to worry about being hassled. Logistics alone probably guarantees that they won't put every person who leaves their DNA in a public place through the rigmorol of official suspect-hood.

9th Engineer · 10-26-2006, 12:55 PM

Care to explain why LJ?

Sundae · 10-26-2006, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glatt

If I leave my DNA someplace, and a crime is committed there later by someone else, then I will be an instant suspect. At a minimum, that will be a hassle for me.

Not sure where I stand on this one, but think I'm with 9th Engineer.

Why would it be any different than your fingerprints being found at a crimescene? Unless you specifically denied being there and had some other tie to the crime I can't see you'd have anything to worry about. If you are convicted on that evidence alone then it's the justice system you need to worry about, not the method for obtaining evidence.

glatt · 10-26-2006, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

Not sure where I stand on this one, but think I'm with 9th Engineer.

Why would it be any different than your fingerprints being found at a crimescene? Unless you specifically denied being there and had some other tie to the crime I can't see you'd have anything to worry about.

My fingerprints aren't in any databases. So they can't find me even if I leave fingerprints for them. They can only use the fingerprints to match me after they find me by other means.

Having my fingerprints in a database or my dna in a database makes it too easy for the government to track me.

I have a right to privacy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

If you are convicted on that evidence alone then it's the justice system you need to worry about, not the method for obtaining evidence

Have you seen the justice system in action? I am worried about it. The government's job is to send people to jail when it is able to, not to send the right people to jail. They assume the court and jury will sort it all out. I'd rather not find myself relying on a court and jury in the first place.

lumberjim · 10-26-2006, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

improvement over fingerprinting (which should be a national database including everyone).

HORSESHIT!

glatt · 10-26-2006, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lumberjim

HORSESHIT!

You said it better than I did.

wolf · 10-26-2006, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buddug

I do not quite know why you think you COULD move to the United Kingdom anyway , Wolf ?

What skills do you have ?

I'm not a real doctor, but I do have a Master's Degree.

wolf · 10-26-2006, 01:01 PM

I begin to see the difference between subject and citizen.

You know, this is just to get people used to the idea, because they think it is somehow reasonable or helpful ... like EZPass and OnStar with the locator transponders ...

Shawnee123 · 10-26-2006, 01:12 PM

@sundae girl

I was just reading the european hijacking thread and you were saying you didn't want to be on CCTV.

But you think it is OK for mandatory dna sampling?

Aren't these viewpoints contradictory?

Shawnee123 · 10-26-2006, 01:13 PM

Well, glatt noticed it the same as me.

Sundae · 10-26-2006, 01:25 PM

You're right of course - they are totally contradictory points of view. It doesn't mean I can't hold both. I do try to admit if I'm posting on gut instinct and emotion - although sometimes I back it up with references by people with better logic than me.

I can see the benefit in having a DNA database. It's open to misuse, but evidence can be planted even at present. I can't see the benefit of filming passengers.

I also approved of an ID card scheme. Then I found out how much I'd have to pay to carry one. I'm now against it

10-26-2006, 12:45 PM	#3
9th Engineer Bioengineer and aspiring lawer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 872	Why is this a bad thing? I think it's a long overdue improvement over fingerprinting (which should be a national database including everyone). Lets not get into conspiracy theory bullshit on this one though, it's an IDENTIFIER. __________________ The most valuable renewable resource is stupidity.

10-26-2006, 12:54 PM	#5
9th Engineer Bioengineer and aspiring lawer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 872	They would be able to tell you had been there, but unless it's somewhere where you either shouldn't have been or very few other people had been I don't think you'd have to worry about being hassled. Logistics alone probably guarantees that they won't put every person who leaves their DNA in a public place through the rigmorol of official suspect-hood. __________________ The most valuable renewable resource is stupidity.

10-26-2006, 12:55 PM	#6
9th Engineer Bioengineer and aspiring lawer Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 872	Care to explain why LJ? __________________ The most valuable renewable resource is stupidity.

10-26-2006, 01:01 PM	#12
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	I begin to see the difference between subject and citizen. You know, this is just to get people used to the idea, because they think it is somehow reasonable or helpful ... like EZPass and OnStar with the locator transponders ... __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

10-26-2006, 01:12 PM	#13
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	@sundae girl I was just reading the european hijacking thread and you were saying you didn't want to be on CCTV. But you think it is OK for mandatory dna sampling? Aren't these viewpoints contradictory? __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

10-26-2006, 02:33 AM	#2
Buddug Guest Posts: n/a	I do not quite know why you think you COULD move to the United Kingdom anyway , Wolf ? What skills do you have ?

10-26-2006, 01:13 PM	#14
Shawnee123 Why, you're a regular Alfred E Einstein, ain't ya? Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 21,206	Well, glatt noticed it the same as me. __________________ A word to the wise ain't necessary - it's the stupid ones who need the advice. --Bill Cosby

10-26-2006, 01:25 PM	#15
Sundae polaroid of perfection Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 24,185	You're right of course - they are totally contradictory points of view. It doesn't mean I can't hold both. I do try to admit if I'm posting on gut instinct and emotion - although sometimes I back it up with references by people with better logic than me. I can see the benefit in having a DNA database. It's open to misuse, but evidence can be planted even at present. I can't see the benefit of filming passengers. I also approved of an ID card scheme. Then I found out how much I'd have to pay to carry one. I'm now against it __________________ Life's hard you know, so strike a pose on a Cadillac

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