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Old 03-15-2004, 12:16 PM   #46
lumberjim
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i'm just really really good at apologizing. and i also assume that I am always wrong.
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Old 03-15-2004, 12:35 PM   #47
Beestie
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I believe this was the point that jinx was originally making, that simply asking "when will women learn" is a tad hypocritical since it assumes women are on the inherently "wrong" side, that they must be the only ones to change.
I'm not being hypocritical because I'm not saying either side is better than the other. Hypocrisy involves saying one thing and doing another. If I am wrong, I am wrong in both word and deed and not one or the other. Perhaps you mean inconsistent in which case, I respectfully disagree.

When women talk to men and expect empathy, I think it's a problem of misplaced expectations. I don't ask my wife to watch SportsCenter and get pumped about the NCAA because I know she doesn't give a flip. But, and I love my wife dearly, she will repeatedly involve me in a decision about which purse to return. It took me about two years but I finally figured out that she doesn't really want my opinion (god forbid I should actually choose one to take back) as much as to share the difficulty of the decision. I think many men would agree - we've adapted and don't expect our women to be "one of the guys" whereas our beloved have been slow to realize (or, at the very least, slow to accept) our emotional limitations.

As anecdotal support, I offer two scenarios: A woman talking to a gay man about designer shoes and a man talking to a lesbian about chain saws. Just visualize those two conversations to see the point I am making.
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Old 03-15-2004, 12:53 PM   #48
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Beestie wrote:
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A woman talking to a gay man about designer shoes and a man talking to a lesbian about chain saws. Just visualize those two conversations to see the point I am making.
Okay, I'm visualizing, but I need some help. Um...what is the lesbian wearing?
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Old 03-15-2004, 01:05 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by Beestie


When women talk to men and expect empathy
I don't know that this is even true, because most women realize that men suck at empathy. Often, when women talk to men they just want the man to talk back.... they want to hear the mans thoughts. I've been asking this of jim for 14 years now, and he's never had much to say. Ironic isn't it?
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Old 03-15-2004, 01:09 PM   #50
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Be thankful. You probably don't want the real answer to the question "what are you thinking about?"
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Old 03-15-2004, 01:23 PM   #51
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No, I really do. But I reserve the right to throw a hissy fit if I don't like the answer
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Old 03-15-2004, 01:26 PM   #52
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I'm not being hypocritical because I'm not saying either side is better than the other. Hypocrisy involves saying one thing and doing another. If I am wrong, I am wrong in both word and deed and not one or the other. Perhaps you mean inconsistent in which case, I respectfully disagree.

I meant hypocritical--the saying one thing and doing another would be A.) saying women shouldn't have these expectations of men to act like women, while B.) having the exact same expectations of women to act like men.

You say you don't have such expectations of women, and I believe you. But plenty of men do. Either way, I didn't mean you personally were hypocritical, more that the position at large often is.
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Old 03-15-2004, 01:42 PM   #53
lumberjim
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Quote:
Originally posted by jinx


I don't know that this is even true, because most women realize that men suck at empathy. Often, when women talk to men they just want the man to talk back.... they want to hear the mans thoughts. I've been asking this of jim for 14 years now, and he's never had much to say. Ironic isn't it?

that's only because I'm not really thinking that much.
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Old 03-15-2004, 02:18 PM   #54
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lumberjim wrote:
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that's only because I'm not really thinking that much.
Exactly! Sometimes I'll just be absolutely vegging out, staring into space, after a day at work of thinking too long and hard about too much stuff, and my wife will ask, "What are you thinking about?" and I swear to god it's like when they show the interior of Homer Simpson's brain and you see a little bobbing-bird toy or a cartoon cow...there is zero actual thinking going on in there.

Women, when you ask us what we're thinking and we say "Nothing" - believe it!
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Old 03-15-2004, 02:31 PM   #55
lumberjim
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i usually have some song rolling around in there, or i'm worrying about bills, or something irrelevant. Then, when i get that question ( and for the record, shelby is not the whining annoying " what are you thinking" type....usually) I assume she means "what are you thinking about what i've been thinking about", or "what do you think about what I was just saying when you really weren't paying attention, although you kept agreeing with me, and saying uh-huh, right, oh really?..."

....and because I don;t know what sh'es been thinking about, i say " nuthin'"
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Old 03-15-2004, 03:11 PM   #56
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I usually steer clear of these kinds of discussions, because A. they turn nasty very quickly and B. in my experience, I don't find many of these generalizations to be true. At least not in my circumstances.

When there is a problem, we try and work together to come up with a solution. Not rehash it over and over just for the sake of it. I like being involved in perth's hobbies, even if I never participated in them before. I think it is part of appreciating another person, least of all my spouse. And he is involved in the things I enjoy, like painting. We include each other to narrow the gap between us. Part of why I liked him in the first place was that we had similar interests. If he was really into watching sports on TV, I might not have ever dated him, simply because it is something I have never been interested in. But then again, if I liked sports I might have found that an attractive quality in someone else.

I think it is great to be married to my best friend. Not because I want to whine at him and expect him to empathize, but because its more fun to spend my life with my best friend than some guy that has only a little bit of interest in hanging out with me outside the bedroom. We have fun hanging out together.

And yes, we do have our independence, too. I go out with friends and so does he. He does stuff by himself sometimes, and I do the same. But I never feel that his hobbies are all for him, or that he would be uncomfortable getting involved in mine.

I guess it is hard for me to understand the complaints men and women have about each other. I appreciate that perth is a man (it is actually an advantage), and whether his differences with me are due to his gender or not is irrellevant. I like the person/man/being that he is. His being male only adds to the whole thing.
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Old 03-15-2004, 06:52 PM   #57
perth
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Quote:
Originally posted by case
I like being involved in perth's hobbies...
Does this mean you're gonna play Halo with me?
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Old 03-18-2004, 06:21 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally posted by case
I think it is great to be married to my best friend. Not because I want to whine at him and expect him to empathize, but because its more fun to spend my life with my best friend than some guy that has only a little bit of interest in hanging out with me outside the bedroom. We have fun hanging out together.

And yes, we do have our independence, too. I go out with friends and so does he. He does stuff by himself sometimes, and I do the same. But I never feel that his hobbies are all for him, or that he would be uncomfortable getting involved in mine.
Thank you Case, you just described perfectly how HP and I feel about each other. You are so right on with everything you said.
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Old 03-18-2004, 06:26 PM   #59
kerosene
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Quote:
Originally posted by Brigliadore


Thank you Case, you just described perfectly how HP and I feel about each other. You are so right on with everything you said.
Neat! It's the only way to do it, I say.
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Old 03-19-2004, 04:48 AM   #60
aerion_13
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Women want to know what everyone's thinking. It's our thing. With other women, we don't usually even have to ask. They say what they're thinking readily. I've asked my husband that same question, to which he didn't even understand what I was asking. It is nice to have some differences.
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