Smooth Running Democracies

[TheMercenary]

If you seriously watch the proceedings at the UN on most any serious subject it is nothing more than a bitch fest that in the end, satisfies very little and where they take no action other than some grand pronouncement which everyone then ignores. How is that productive?

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Not rubbish, and not confused. I think people who live in other countries find it very easy to trash people and places that they don't understand. We do it all the time,

Okay Merc. Enough is enough! Now I must agree with you TWICE in the same thread. Don't you think you've gone too far?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Aretha's doctor

Okay Merc. Enough is enough! Now I must agree with you TWICE in the same thread. Don't you think you've gone too far?

You forgot the bit, Just look at FRANCE!

I dexterously omitted the parts I didn't like. Just because I agree it doesn't mean that I must always admit it.

[ZenGum]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Hopefully that will never happen!

The original 13 states of the USA got together because it was in their interest to do so.
There are some reasons that it is in the interests of everyone - or at least the large majority - for the whole planet to get together in a similar way.
The most obvious examples are environmental: the current political farce that is crippling attempts to control carbon dioxide emissions shows how the present political situation just cannot handle global issues. Or look at unsustainable fishing quotas, other kinds of pollution, China's artificial currency value screwing the rest of the world's trade figures ...
For some things, we need a world government that can make good decisions and then enforce them.

And I agree, BTW, that in the main the UN is an unproductive bitch fest that is rarely capable of making a good decision and when it does, cannot enforce it.
The WHO has a few victories to its credit, and some peace-keeping operations have helped: Cambodia for one.
I'd never say the UN is doing a great job and we ought to keep it just as it is. Just that some things need a world government and it's too important to give up on.

But no need to worry, Merc (and I'm sure you're not). The USA formed out of the common interest of resisting an external foe, and the UN formed in the wake of a disastrous war. I don't see a real world government appearing until either after WWIII, or the appearance of hostile extra-terrestrials. Massive environmental melt-down might do the trick, but even that I doubt. We'd be too busy squabbling over the bones.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

The original 13 states of the USA got together because it was in their interest to do so.

But no need to worry, Merc (and I'm sure you're not). The USA formed out of the common interest of resisting an external foe, and the UN formed in the wake of a disastrous war. I don't see a real world government appearing until either after WWIII, or the appearance of hostile extra-terrestrials. Massive environmental melt-down might do the trick, but even that I doubt. We'd be too busy squabbling over the bones.

Well the formation of our country is not really the same issue, not to mention that it happened over 200 years ago...

And for the later paragraph, I hope you are right. We will never form a "World Government" IMHO.. the EU can barely get it together.

[lookout123]

The original 13 states of the USA got together because it was in their interest to do so.
There are some reasons that it is in the interests of everyone - or at least the large majority

They came together as a means of self-preservation from outside threats. They knew that none of the 13 states could defend itself from a foreign invasion without the help of the other 12. Trade and economics are part of the package in dealing with outside entities. So until such time as Captain Kirk comes to us, there is no purpose in having a centralized global government. You see, human nature abhors not having something to fight against. So until we have an identifiable enemy with a face who comes from outer space... humans aren't going to submit to a global government.

Also, AD keeps going back to Democracy and how the US is undemocratic because we don't submit to the great and glorious will of the UN. Get it straight - the US is a democratic republic formed for the purpose of protecting the persons and the interests of the people found within her borders. National interests come first. We should strive to be good global citizens whenever possible, but when the immediate interests of the US do not align with some UN or international plan, it needs to be perfectly clear - the primary responsibility of the US government is to her citizens.

You can argue over whether a course of action is in the US best interests or not from a variety of angles - and that is good and healthy - but to believe that the US should submit to a course of action that is counter to our interests for the sake of "democracy"... not so much.

[TheMercenary]

Well stated. I tend to get riled up at anything to do with the UN, having participated is some of their BS.

[lookout123]

yeah, i've noticed. i was still active when they started court martialling guys who wouldn't put the Blue Beret on. Stupid as it sounds I never really thought much about politics before that time.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by lookout123

yeah, i've noticed. i was still active when they started court martialling guys who wouldn't put the Blue Beret on. Stupid as it sounds I never really thought much about politics before that time.

I remember it well. Mine was red.

[regular.joe]

I had a conversation with a guy last night. The U.S. is a pretty bitchen place. People get into storage connexes, in places like Shanghai, with some food and water, and hope they make it alive to the States. Wow. I don't think that anyone in the States is getting into a storage connex and hoping to make it alive to China or North Korea, or
Cuba.

People risk their lives in the desert every single day of every single year hoping to make it to the U.S. alive.

What a wonderful place we have here. What a tradition we have for being the melting pot that we are. While people in the wold are grinding their axe with our current foreign policy...people are still risking their lives in droves in the hope of living here.

I think about that from time to time. It keeps me grateful for what we have.

The right answers for these issues are obviously not easy. They are worth working out, in the best interest of all concerned. We are just coming to the same conclusion that the Native Americans came to? Holy shit!! These people are coming and they ain't gonna stop!!! Yep, they sure are. If we manage it right, they will certainly add to our prosperity, thereby brining more to our great nation.

[piercehawkeye45]

Most people grind their axe with our foreign policy because we exploit countries, making their people poor, and creating a wealth disparity that people will risk their lives to get on the top with.

Honestly, if our corporations and military pulled out of poor third world countries that people are risking their lives to leave from, they would be much better off.

[lookout123]

the ones who were still alive and still had means for continued survival just might be. the dead ones might not be too appreciative though.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Honestly, if our corporations and military pulled out of poor third world countries that people are risking their lives to leave from, they would be much better off.

I agree, and the sooner we cut off all funding of those nations through our government the better for us as well. We need pull out all our aid, all government handouts, all of it. And then there is a list of countries where we should cut off all trade. Great idea.

[piercehawkeye45]

The trade thing can get really stupid (Cuba for example), but if you are going to pull aid, pull out everything and let them control their own goddamn resources.