Radio Ad for Firearms Training - Page 4

Spexxvet · 11-07-2011, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

I'd venture to say that the "many" in your #4 should be "SOME" or "very few."

Look at how many were outraged at the "Ground Zero Mosque". More than a very few.

classicman · 11-13-2011, 09:19 PM

Percentage wise - a pittance.

regular.joe · 11-13-2011, 10:09 PM

We have been fighting a war on several fronts, the largest of these fronts have been in Iraq and Afghanistan. Almost all of our efforts in our current wars overseas deal with populations almost entirely of Muslim descent....and we don't know dick about the religion here in the states. Wow. Just wow. 10 years of war, and the vast majority of Americans can not tell the difference between a Shia and a Sunni, or any of the dozen or so other "heretics" that are wondering around out there in the world. This dismays me a little.

Americans have such a cultural bias for anything not American...what ever the fuck that is. Using the criteria put forth as to why Muslims can't be American citizens would disqualify at least half of the Christian population of the U.S.

I'll trade you a quote from the Qur'an. Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

DanaC · 11-14-2011, 02:50 AM

Well said Joe!

And great quote.

HungLikeJesus · 11-14-2011, 06:17 AM

I'm not sure I get your point Joe. I can't tell a Catholic from a Baptist, and how long have we been fighting them?

DanaC · 11-14-2011, 06:21 AM

I bet you could come up with a handful of distinctions if you thought about it though.

HungLikeJesus · 11-14-2011, 06:22 AM

Well, Baptists do tend to be shinier.

BigV · 11-14-2011, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus

Well, Baptists do tend to be shinier.

It's the wet look, isn't it?

DanaC · 11-14-2011, 06:23 AM

See!

Undertoad · 11-14-2011, 07:23 AM

Counterpoint:

If someone wants to kill me because I don't share their beliefs, I don't really care what their beliefs ARE. That's their particular form of bullshit, whether it's a 12th Imam to return to rule the earth for seven years or careful application of Sharia and various bullshit rituals. The problem is not interpreting their bullshit in a way that allows for patient cooperation with the rest of the world.

The KKK was a Christian organization but we didn't need to study what particular variety of beliefs put them over the top. We just needed to extinguish those beliefs.

BigV · 11-14-2011, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Counterpoint:

If someone wants to kill me because I don't share their beliefs, I don't really care what their beliefs ARE. That's their particular form of bullshit, whether it's a 12th Imam to return to rule the earth for seven years or careful application of Sharia and various bullshit rituals. The problem is not interpreting their bullshit in a way that allows for patient cooperation with the rest of the world.

The KKK was a Christian organization but we didn't need to study what particular variety of beliefs put them over the top. We just needed to extinguish those beliefs.

UT:

Would you please reconcile this contradiction in your post?

Are you saying that someone who wants to kill you because you don't share their beliefs, you don't care what their beliefs are, you just need to extinguish those beliefs (different from yours). ***my read following*** because if those beliefs are gone, the threat to your life will be gone? That you're threatened by those different beliefs?

or

Are you saying that your beliefs should remain, and other beliefs that don't lead people to want to kill you are acceptable, but all other beliefs need to be extinguished?

or

Something else?

I have a really hard time conceiving how a set of beliefs can be extinguished. And another serious question about your post I have is your apparent emphasis of a religious belief over the actions of an individual as the threat to your safety. You barely mention "a person". Which is more culpable? Which is the greater threat? Which can possibly be effectively changed?

Undertoad · 11-14-2011, 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigV

Would you please reconcile this contradiction in your post?

I wasn't trying to combine the two bits, and what separates them is the first-person "I" versus the societal "we". If someone wants to kill me because of their beliefs, "I" don't care what those beliefs are. In the case of the beliefs of the KKK, "we" had to emphasize that civil society does not accept them, especially in the eyes of the law.

DanaC · 11-14-2011, 08:02 AM

You didn't seek to extinguish Christian beliefs though. Just the white supremacist violent terrorist part.

The point isn't that some brands of Islam aren't violent and dangerous, but that not all are. To say there is something inherently un-American about being a muslim is ignorant and dangerous.

Undertoad · 11-14-2011, 08:37 AM

All of Christianity had to change in order to get along with the rest of the world. In order for that to happen, it had to be interpreted differently. All of Islam is regularly interpreted this way or that by various figures in the religion. At some point those figures will start interpreting it differently. Just like the Bible, there are plenty of contradictory teachings in the Koran, and eventually the religion will pick the bits that let us live on the same planet without killing each other.

Until that time, there will probably be violence.

As far as the original guy goes, he is part of the reinterpretation, and he is a garden variety troll who is able to purchase cheap radio time, and doesn't represent a common viewpoint. As his belief does not find a toehold it will slowly be abandoned.

wolf · 11-14-2011, 12:08 PM

The Koran also says ...

"The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."

And one of the hadith's says of Jews ...

"They are debased, cursed, anathematized forever by God and so can never repent and be forgiven; they are cheats and traitors; defiant and stubborn; they killed the prophets; they are liars who falsify scripture and take bribes; as infidels they are ritually unclean, a foul odor emanating from them - such is the image of the Jew in classical Islam, degraded and malevolent."

Little hard to reconcile that with the whole "religion of peace" image they're trying to present now.

11-13-2011, 09:19 PM	#2
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	Percentage wise - a pittance. __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

11-13-2011, 10:09 PM	#3
regular.joe Старый сержант Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: NC, dreaming of large Russian women. Posts: 1,464	We have been fighting a war on several fronts, the largest of these fronts have been in Iraq and Afghanistan. Almost all of our efforts in our current wars overseas deal with populations almost entirely of Muslim descent....and we don't know dick about the religion here in the states. Wow. Just wow. 10 years of war, and the vast majority of Americans can not tell the difference between a Shia and a Sunni, or any of the dozen or so other "heretics" that are wondering around out there in the world. This dismays me a little. Americans have such a cultural bias for anything not American...what ever the fuck that is. Using the criteria put forth as to why Muslims can't be American citizens would disqualify at least half of the Christian population of the U.S. I'll trade you a quote from the Qur'an. Verily! Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians, and Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and do righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. __________________ Birth, wealth, and position are valueless during wartime. Man is only judged by his character --Soldier's Testament. Death, like birth, is a secret of Nature. - Marcus Aurelius.

11-14-2011, 06:17 AM	#5
HungLikeJesus Only looks like a disaster tourist Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: above 7,000 feet Posts: 7,208	I'm not sure I get your point Joe. I can't tell a Catholic from a Baptist, and how long have we been fighting them? __________________ Keep Your Bodies Off My Lawn SteveDallas's Random Thread Picker.

11-14-2011, 06:22 AM	#7
HungLikeJesus Only looks like a disaster tourist Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: above 7,000 feet Posts: 7,208	Well, Baptists do tend to be shinier. __________________ Keep Your Bodies Off My Lawn SteveDallas's Random Thread Picker.

11-14-2011, 12:08 PM	#15
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	The Koran also says ... "The Day of Judgement will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Muslims, O Abdullah, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." And one of the hadith's says of Jews ... "They are debased, cursed, anathematized forever by God and so can never repent and be forgiven; they are cheats and traitors; defiant and stubborn; they killed the prophets; they are liars who falsify scripture and take bribes; as infidels they are ritually unclean, a foul odor emanating from them - such is the image of the Jew in classical Islam, degraded and malevolent." Little hard to reconcile that with the whole "religion of peace" image they're trying to present now. __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

11-14-2011, 07:23 AM	#10
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Counterpoint: If someone wants to kill me because I don't share their beliefs, I don't really care what their beliefs ARE. That's their particular form of bullshit, whether it's a 12th Imam to return to rule the earth for seven years or careful application of Sharia and various bullshit rituals. The problem is not interpreting their bullshit in a way that allows for patient cooperation with the rest of the world. The KKK was a Christian organization but we didn't need to study what particular variety of beliefs put them over the top. We just needed to extinguish those beliefs.

11-14-2011, 08:37 AM	#14
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	All of Christianity had to change in order to get along with the rest of the world. In order for that to happen, it had to be interpreted differently. All of Islam is regularly interpreted this way or that by various figures in the religion. At some point those figures will start interpreting it differently. Just like the Bible, there are plenty of contradictory teachings in the Koran, and eventually the religion will pick the bits that let us live on the same planet without killing each other. Until that time, there will probably be violence. As far as the original guy goes, he is part of the reinterpretation, and he is a garden variety troll who is able to purchase cheap radio time, and doesn't represent a common viewpoint. As his belief does not find a toehold it will slowly be abandoned.

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