What would Martin Niemoller think about Arizona?

[Cloud]

right, so if you're white enough, and prosperous enough, you won't look suspicious.

some people think (not sure if I'm among them) that the "spirit" of the law is less to address immigration problems, than to address the upcoming election.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Cloud

right, so if you're white enough, and prosperous enough, you won't look suspicious.

some people think (not sure if I'm among them) that the "spirit" of the law is less to address immigration problems, than to address the upcoming election.

I agree. But it could also be drastic measures, that probably will not hold up in court, to draw attention to the big elephant in the corner of the room, lack of a clear and enforcable immigration policy.

[Cloud]

I think it's a tough and emotional problem, with implications not only for security, money, jobs, but also for families, and honestly, we've had bigger fish to fry for a while. Well, ready or not, the issue's on the table now.

[jinx]

I just have a hard to time blaming law enforcement for the immigration problem. You can assume they will abuse their position and use this law to harass people.... but why?

What about hispanic cops? Can we at least assume that they would administer the law correctly?

[TheMercenary]

I don't know jinx, but people just don't trust cops, and illegal aliens certainly have good reason to fear the police. I think a lot of places have probably worked pretty hard to break into that fear to get them to report real crime against them. Now they have that wall back up again. I wonder how many will just not detain or arrest them as the law says they should.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by jinx

You can assume they will abuse their position and use this law to harass people.... but why?

Will they be abusing their position if it's actually legal for them to do it?

[jinx]

Legal for them to harass people?
The way I read and understood the law, the will have the right to inquire about immigration status of someone they have legally detained for another reason. I guess you could call that harassment, but how else would they know if someone is illegal?
If you're opposed to enforcement of immigration laws to begin with you're not going to agree with any of this, I get that.

[Cloud]

According to CNN:

The law, scheduled to go into effect 90 days after the close of the state's legislative session, would require immigrants to carry their alien registration documents at all times. Previously, officers could check someone's immigration status only if that person was suspected in another crime.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by jinx

Legal for them to harass people?
The way I read and understood the law, the will have the right to inquire about immigration status of someone they have legally detained for another reason. I guess you could call that harassment, but how else would they know if someone is illegal?

I think the law says that they can pull you over for speeding and instead of giving you a ticket and letting you drive away, they can now give you the ticket and throw you in jail until you can prove you are a citizen. They now have that legal power. Whether they choose to do it to a particular person or not is entirely up to them. If you are a citizen, or a legal immigrant, and don't have papers on you, you will eventually get around to proving that fact and be released from jail, but you will probably consider it a hassle.

[jinx]

they can now give you the ticket and throw you in jail until you can prove you are a citizen. They now have that legal power.

A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE
25 MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON,

Throwing people in jail is not a reasonable attempt when practical by any stretch of the imagination.

But if you've actually been arrested for something, they will determine your immigration status before you are released. That what it says.

ANY
27 PERSON WHO IS ARRESTED SHALL HAVE THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS DETERMINED
28 BEFORE THE PERSON IS RELEASED. THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE
29 VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION
30 1373(c).

If I ever get arrested, having to rattle off my soc. sec. number will be the least of my concerns.

[lumberjim]

if you're driving, you should have your driver's license with you.

can an illegal immigrant get a driver's license in Arizona?

If you're a legal immigrant on a VISA, wouldn't you keep it handy? or know the numbers by heart?

[classicman]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I don't know jinx, but people just don't trust cops, and illegal aliens certainly have good reason to fear the police.

Ya think? Maybe thats because they are criminals. Maybe thats a better term for them. Illegal criminals.
(ya I know its a double - that was intentional)
I don't particularly like the laws vagueness nor do I like the idea of just granting them amnesty. That seems to be a very short-sighted, politically motivated answer.
We'll be in the same position in a few years or a decade again as they will continue to flood through.

Again and again, Until we secure the borders, nothing will change.

[DanaC]

The danger with this sort of approach isn't so much the conscious abuse of it, but the way it can be informed by an individual's own prejudices and fears. And that isn't to say I think cops are racist...probably some are, likely many aren't: but we all have some prejudices. Even if we don't hold a particular set of views, our instinctive responses may not always make us proud of ourselves :P

I notice islamic dress in a way I never did before. It was always there; I just didn't really pay it any attention. Now, I notice a group of asian lads in islamic clothes and I feel a kind of tension. If a police officer on the beat notices more as well, and is particularly focused on the anti-extremism agenda, then the addition of arbitrary stop and search powers becomes a dangerous thing. Not because the police officer is necessarily racist, or even anti-Islam: just aware and with the power to stop anyone who looks 'suspicious'.

If the police in Arizona are particularly focusing on the immigration issue; how are they deciding who to stop?

[Spexxvet]

How can you trust cops, but not trust the government. There are trustworthy and untrustworthy individuals in both fields.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by lumberjim

can an illegal immigrant get a driver's license in Arizona?

I actually think so, but I'm not positive.

If you're a legal immigrant on a VISA, wouldn't you keep it handy? or know the numbers by heart?

Yes, I would. I always have some form of ID on me - just in case of an emergency.