Suicidal friend

[monster]

DING DING DING DING! there we go. OK, who got post #30 in the sweepstake?

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Datalyss

I can always bring myself out of it.

That is why my statement still stands.

[Pie]

(My two cents, now that datalyss is hopefully gone!)

I'm one of those who think that suicide does have a place in the varieties of human life (since death is always a part of life). Specifically, in medically catastrophic situations.

I do not believe that someone in intolerable pain should be forced to remain that way with no hope of relief; that would be torture. Whether that pain must be physical or not is harder to say.

[xoxoxoBruce]

That's not suicide, that's self induce euthanasia.

[wolf]

Originally Posted by Datalyss

Now, as for the real issue. Suicide. Here's my bottom line on the subject. It's the ultimate cowardly act. Life kicking yer ass? Suck it up! Find a way to deal with it that doesn't involve killing yourself. Remember, suicide is an automatic ticket to hell (according to the bible), where things are said to be much worse.

None of which are useful ways of bringing someone back from the edge.

Been there, done that.

Hey, if it works for you, I'm all for it, but it's not generally successful.

[wolf]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

First, for the most part, suicidal thoughts are completely irrational.

Not to the person who is having them. From the individual's perspective they are making a reasoned, logical, and completely rational choice.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by wolf

Not to the person who is having them. From the individual's perspective they are making a reasoned, logical, and completely rational choice.

Well of course. My point is that suicidal people are not in the same logical mindset that non-suicidal people are, which argues against Datalyss' argument that these people are weak minded or cowards. You don't fully realize how irrational your thoughts have been until you completely come out of the depression or other mental state.

[Tulip]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

First, for the most part, suicidal thoughts are completely irrational.

Originally Posted by wolf

Not to the person who is having them. From the individual's perspective they are making a reasoned, logical, and completely rational choice.

Not always true. Even when a person knows suicide isn't the way to go, he/she simply doesn't want to be around anymore, doesn't want to feel the pain anymore.

[monster]

When can we start the "I've been more suicidal than you have" competition?

It's OK, today is one of my Jewish days, no Hell for me.

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by monster

When can we start the "I've been more suicidal than you have" competition?

It's OK, today is one of my Jewish days, no Hell for me.

funny monster!

[Sheldonrs]

Just my 2 cents but in a lot of ways, suicide keeps me alive. At least the idea of it. It lets me know that if things get really bad (and they frequently do) I CAN kill myself. Lord knows I tried it enough times when i was younger and came close once.

It's neither cowardly nor brave. It's just an option that is upto the individual to choose.

And I have issues with people who say you can't kill yourself because life is a "precious gift". A "gift" means it's yours to do with what you want. There are no riders on that deal.

[DanaC]

I agree with every word you just said Sheldon. I've said before that the idea of suicide is actually quite a comforting one. Knowing there's an exit makes me less eager to leave :P

[Pie]

Originally Posted by Sheldonrs

Just my 2 cents but in a lot of ways, suicide keeps me alive. At least the idea of it. It lets me know that if things get really bad (and they frequently do) I CAN kill myself. Lord knows I tried it enough times when i was younger and came close once.

It's neither cowardly nor brave. It's just an option that is upto the individual to choose.

And I have issues with people who say you can't kill yourself because life is a "precious gift". A "gift" means it's yours to do with what you want. There are no riders on that deal.

Shel, I admire your bravery in that statement.
I would add to the 'precious gift' that life is only a gift if you wanted it in the first place. Otherwise, it's merely a burden.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Tulip

Not always true. Even when a person knows suicide isn't the way to go, he/she simply doesn't want to be around anymore, doesn't want to feel the pain anymore.

That is why I said "for the most part". Every suicidal person is suicidal for different reasons and I want to make the point to not to generalize all suicidal people in that manner you are speaking of.

Some people can snap out of depressions with a positive mindset. Some people's depression is a physical chemical imbalance that needs medicine to fix. It is not valid to generalize all depressed people in either category but it is more dangerous to generalize all depressed people in the first category.

The same concept applies to suicidal people. Some people are making a rational decision and some people aren't. It is not valid to generalize all suicidal people in either category but it is more dangerous to generalize all in the first.

[xoxoxoBruce]

These suicide notes were gathered at the coroners' offices by a suicidologist/psychiatrist who asked to be anonymous. He edited identifying details out of the compiled manuscript, and we changed the names. But the text of each letter plus the age and sex given are real. All these people did kill themselves. Were they ambivalent about it? About half the hundred or so letters we saw seemed to have some element of doubt.

The notes.