This is MY America! - Page 3

Flint · 05-31-2007, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinx

Which native americans are you talking about?

The 10 to 20 million people living in an advanced, complex North American society before the "settlers" arrived to "tame the wilderness" ...

Shawnee123 · 05-31-2007, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

The 10 to 20 million people living in an advanced, complex North American society before the "settlers" arrived to "tame the wilderness" ...

:

jinx · 05-31-2007, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

The 10 to 20 million people living in an advanced, complex North American society before the "settlers" arrived to "tame the wilderness" ...

But they weren't the first, so why do they have any more right to claim this land than the european settlers? Your argument is not about who was first, just who was here before the british???

Flint · 05-31-2007, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

The 10 to 20 million people living in an advanced, complex North American society before the "settlers" arrived to "tame the wilderness" ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinx

But they weren't the first, so why do they have any more right to claim this land than the european settlers? Your argument is not about who was first, just who was here before the british???

The Native Americans weren't here first??? Be it 12K, 19K, or as much as 40+K years ago; via land voyage across the Bering Strait, or skipping along the extreme Northern coastline in small boat voyages, people got here somehow. They were here, and well-established in a complex, advanced culture of 10s of millions (as opposed to a nomadic scattering of primitive savages) when the Europeans began to arrive circa 1500.

It's not "my argument" - it's what happened. I mention the British specifically because they mark the beginning of the "creation myth" of America.

jinx · 05-31-2007, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

The Native Americans weren't here first??? Be it 12K, 19K, or as much as 40+K years ago; via land voyage across the Bering Strait, or skipping along the extreme Northern coastline in small boat voyages, people got here somehow.

So, no matter where they came from or how they got here - they were all Native Americans, right up to and excluding the european settlers?

Flint · 05-31-2007, 05:40 PM

Yes, that's what Native American means.

monster · 05-31-2007, 07:55 AM

...guys so uptight even the British didn't want them.....

piercehawkeye45 · 05-31-2007, 08:51 AM

Personally, I think white supremacy today has massive similarities to the Stanford Prison Experiment.

The Stanford Prison Experiment was where a random group of college students were either given a duty of prison guard or prisoner for a psychology experiment. After a while, these kids started actually acting upon their assigned positions, sometimes very violently. The prison guards were very dominant and abusive while the prisoners were very submissive and rebellious.

When white kids of today learn about history and "great" people, all they see are whites. So they start subconsciously assuming that whites are better than all the other races. When they are given this assumption, they will start to subconsciously acting upon it.

Shawnee123 · 05-31-2007, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Personally, I think white supremacy today has massive similarities to the Stanford Prison Experiment.

The Stanford Prison Experiment was where a random group of college students were either given a duty of prison guard or prisoner for a psychology experiment. After a while, these kids started actually acting upon their assigned positions, sometimes very violently. The prison guards were very dominant and abusive while the prisoners were very submissive and rebellious.

When white kids of today learn about history and "great" people, all they see are whites. So they start subconsciously assuming that whites are better than all the other races. When they are given this assumption, they will start to subconsciously acting upon it.

Amazing that you brought that up. Over the weekend I read "High School Confidential" by Jeremy Iverson. The author posed as a high school student, and referred to the Stanford experiment (Iverson also graduated from Stanford) to point to this very phenomenon.

Flint · 05-31-2007, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

The Stanford Prison Experiment was where a random group of college students were either given a duty of prison guard or prisoner for a psychology experiment. After a while, these kids started actually acting upon their assigned positions, sometimes very violently. The prison guards were very dominant and abusive while the prisoners were very submissive and rebellious.

I saw a very disturbing movie based on this scenario... I cannot remember, at the moment, what it was called.

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

When white kids of today learn about history and "great" people, all they see are whites. So they start subconsciously assuming that whites are better than all the other races. When they are given this assumption, they will start to subconsciously acting upon it.

And conversely, how do you think non-white students feel about what they "learn" in "history" class?

piercehawkeye45 · 05-31-2007, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawnee123

Amazing that you brought that up. Over the weekend I read "High School Confidential" by Jeremy Iverson. The author posed as a high school student, and referred to the Stanford experiment (Iverson also graduated from Stanford) to point to this very phenomenon.

I will put it on my list, thanks. I am assuming that you liked it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

I saw a very disturbing movie based on this scenario... I cannot remember, at the moment, what it was called.

If you can think of the name could you please give me it?

Quote:

And conversely, how do you think non-white students feel about what they "learn" in "history" class?

Yes, they get the opposite (prisoner) personality. That could be one of the reasons why it is hard for many to breach the "glass ceiling" and why so many are in jail (submissive and rebellious).

Flint · 05-31-2007, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Stanford Prison Experiment

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

I saw a very disturbing movie based on this scenario...

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

If you can think of the name could you please give me it?

Got it: Das Experiment ... "based on the infamous "Stanford Prison Experiment" conducted in 1971"

Shawnee123 · 05-31-2007, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

I will put it on my list, thanks. I am assuming that you liked it?

I did like it. I found on the net that the "actual" high school he went to was all up in arms, crying "foul." I didn't look at it as a scientific model of a social experiment. Of course any HS wouldn't like the drinking and drug use exposed, though we all know it is what it is (and in most ways is no different than it was for us "old skoolers." He admits that some activity was a conglomeration of people. It's not like Mr X said everything he said Mr X said, rather Mr X may have played a part with contributions from Ms Y and Mr T.

In fact, the reaction I read from the administrators of the school just lent more credence to Mr Iverson's story, imo.

I would be interested in your take, pierce, from a more recently graduated from HS perspective!

Das Experiment is going on my movies I want to see list.

piercehawkeye45 · 05-31-2007, 09:28 AM

Thanks a lot.

piercehawkeye45 · 05-31-2007, 09:31 AM

Yes, I will definitely read it this summer. Thank you a lot, it sounds very interesting.

05-31-2007, 05:40 PM	#6
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	Yes, that's what Native American means. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

05-31-2007, 07:55 AM	#7
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	...guys so uptight even the British didn't want them..... __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

05-31-2007, 08:51 AM	#8
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	Personally, I think white supremacy today has massive similarities to the Stanford Prison Experiment. The Stanford Prison Experiment was where a random group of college students were either given a duty of prison guard or prisoner for a psychology experiment. After a while, these kids started actually acting upon their assigned positions, sometimes very violently. The prison guards were very dominant and abusive while the prisoners were very submissive and rebellious. When white kids of today learn about history and "great" people, all they see are whites. So they start subconsciously assuming that whites are better than all the other races. When they are given this assumption, they will start to subconsciously acting upon it.

05-31-2007, 09:28 AM	#14
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	Thanks a lot.

05-31-2007, 09:31 AM	#15
piercehawkeye45 Franklin Pierce Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,695	Yes, I will definitely read it this summer. Thank you a lot, it sounds very interesting.

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