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Old 05-31-2007, 08:31 AM   #1
Flint
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jinx View Post
Which native americans are you talking about?
The 10 to 20 million people living in an advanced, complex North American society before the "settlers" arrived to "tame the wilderness" ...
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Old 05-31-2007, 08:54 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flint View Post
The 10 to 20 million people living in an advanced, complex North American society before the "settlers" arrived to "tame the wilderness" ...
:
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Old 05-31-2007, 01:53 PM   #3
jinx
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The 10 to 20 million people living in an advanced, complex North American society before the "settlers" arrived to "tame the wilderness" ...
But they weren't the first, so why do they have any more right to claim this land than the european settlers? Your argument is not about who was first, just who was here before the british???
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Old 05-31-2007, 03:35 PM   #4
Flint
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flint View Post
The 10 to 20 million people living in an advanced, complex North American society before the "settlers" arrived to "tame the wilderness" ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jinx View Post
But they weren't the first, so why do they have any more right to claim this land than the european settlers? Your argument is not about who was first, just who was here before the british???
The Native Americans weren't here first??? Be it 12K, 19K, or as much as 40+K years ago; via land voyage across the Bering Strait, or skipping along the extreme Northern coastline in small boat voyages, people got here somehow. They were here, and well-established in a complex, advanced culture of 10s of millions (as opposed to a nomadic scattering of primitive savages) when the Europeans began to arrive circa 1500.

It's not "my argument" - it's what happened. I mention the British specifically because they mark the beginning of the "creation myth" of America.
__________________
******************
There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there
it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your
expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever
gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio
Last edited by Flint; 05-31-2007 at 03:45 PM.
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Old 05-31-2007, 04:29 PM   #5
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The Native Americans weren't here first??? Be it 12K, 19K, or as much as 40+K years ago; via land voyage across the Bering Strait, or skipping along the extreme Northern coastline in small boat voyages, people got here somehow.
So, no matter where they came from or how they got here - they were all Native Americans, right up to and excluding the european settlers?
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Old 05-31-2007, 05:40 PM   #6
Flint
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Yes, that's what Native American means.
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******************
There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there
it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your
expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever
gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio
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Old 05-31-2007, 06:49 PM   #7
jinx
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Yes, that's what Native American means.
But at first you said it meant only the people who came across the bering straight - now you're saying that people from africa, spain, netherlands etc... who got got here prior to the brits are all NA's. I guess I just don't understand your line in the sand. What exactly were you taught in school that you're refuting?
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Old 05-31-2007, 06:56 PM   #8
Flint
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Originally Posted by jinx View Post
...now you're saying that people from africa, spain, netherlands etc... who got got here prior to the brits are all NA's. I guess I just don't understand your line in the sand.
No, I'm not saying that. You're confused about what "European" means. Spanish, French, and Dutch people are Europeans. The Africans were slaves of, and thus came with the Europeans. The millions of people who had already had an established civilization here were Native Americans.
__________________
******************
There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there
it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your
expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever
gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio
Last edited by Flint; 05-31-2007 at 07:01 PM.
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Old 05-31-2007, 08:50 PM   #9
lumberjim
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jinx View Post
So, no matter where they came from or how they got here - they were all Native Americans, right up to and excluding the european settlers?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flint View Post
Yes, that's what Native American means.
no it isn't. native means they were always here. that they evolved here. I THINK jinx's point is that the people that crossed the land bridge, and came into this country did the same thing as the european colonists. they invaded, and took over. because they could. might means right on an historical sense.
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