Obama's Dog

[DanaC]

I found that really interesting. I do think attitudes towards pedigree dogs have got a little imbalanced in recent years. That said there is a definate problem with some breed 'standards'. We really shouldn't be breeding dogs who are so specialised in nature that they can no longer breed or give birth without assistance, nor indeed should we be specialising to the point of severe genetic defects; but that's a relatively small part of the pedigree world.

I have always had pedigree dogs. We've taken in the odd rescue mutt too, but they've been accidental admissions to the family, rather than planned. We've been stung by a large puppy seller, a kennel of which we have since become suspicious and I personally am convinced buys from puppy farmers. The dog we got from them was a lovely little thing. But he was beset with health problems from the start. What we thought was a cute fat little belly was actually a distended swollen belly. We could practically have set up a bed in the vets for his first eighteen months.

These days I know what I am looking for and I know how to source a good breeder. I took a long train journey to get to Pilau's breeder. I met his parents (his dad looked exactly like Pil grew to look, and was nicknamed Dud the Stud) and his litter mates. I saw the pictures of his grandsire and granddam on the walls along with their ribbons and prizes. I spent time with the dogs, unhurried and saw where they slept.

It pisses me off when the animal rights peeps characterise our relationship with dogs as an equivalent to our relationship with any other domestic creature. It's different with dogs. It just is. They are intertwined through our lives and histories, our homes and memories, like no other creature. We've moulded them and been moulded by them.

[classicman]

ha ha ha @ s123

[classicman]

Yes I read the article. I have bought dogs from breeders and bred dogs as well. FWIW, Field trial champions, both beagles and retrievers. I believe that in most cases a rescued dog is fine. Nowadays that may be different. Its been a few years (coughdecadecough) since I've been involved. Aside from some very specific cases, I see no need to breed more animals that we already have too many of.
This includes cats (ducks and runs)

[Nirvana]

I am not sure what you mean.Too many purebred dogs? Too many back yard bred dogs? Too many mutts? If there are too many how can commercial pet mills operate at a profit? Supply and demand works in that industry as well. Did you know it is illegal in MO. to photograph a dog auction? The laws in that state protect that industry. They have unions.
Most of the dogs one will see in a kill or regular shelter are mutts or dogs bred by un-knowledgeable back yard breeders that failed to neuter their family pet. Its very rare that you will see any purebred registered dogs bred by professionals in any shelters.
Animal rights activists want to control every aspect of animal ownership whether you just want a family pet or you want to breed birds.
Its is now illegal in California for chickens to be kept in confinement when they lay eggs. Next they will tell livestock producers how many animals they can have, what to feed them and then charge them $100 per animal just to have them. Say hello to $100 T-bones if you like to eat meat! $40 eggs, $200 hams etc.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Nirvana

I am not sure what you mean.Too many purebred dogs? Too many back yard bred dogs? Too many mutts? If there are too many how can commercial pet mills operate at a profit? Supply and demand works in that industry as well.

I believe I said "Aside from some very specific cases, I see no need to breed more animals that we already have too many of."

There are too many human keeping too many domesticated pets of all sorts of varieties. Many of the mutts that you speak of are potentially from careless owners who had to have a "status-filled" purebred animal. These are the owners who quite often improperly care for their pets and let them get out and breed. This is NO REFLECTION on the many breeders and others who care excellently for their pets and need purebreds to show or in trials. I know many of them and they are awesome people and pet owners.

I could list many examples of both, but will not bore the readers here who could care less.

As far as the commercial mills you mention, perhaps they wouldn't do so well if the demand for hose pets was decreased by people rescuing dogs instead. Many many dogs at shelters are from loving families who can no longer afford them and elderly who pass away.

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by classicman

Yes I read the article. I have bought dogs from breeders and bred dogs as well. FWIW, Field trial champions, both beagles and retrievers. I believe that in most cases a rescued dog is fine. Nowadays that may be different. Its been a few years (coughdecadecough) since I've been involved. Aside from some very specific cases, I see no need to breed more animals that we already have too many of.
This includes cats (ducks and runs)

Who said there are too many ducks?

As far as chickens, I think we should tie them up by their wings and just let the eggs drop out of them!

[sugarpop]

There are some great dogs at shelters, and some of those puppy mills where people breed purebreds are atrocious. I agree classic, there really are too many domesticated animals out there. So many are put to sleep every year, and some of those animals would make perfectly good family pets. I think a lot of it depends on the breed. Too many people see a movie or something with a dog they think is cute, so they buy one without doing any research if that breed is a good match for them. Then they end up in a shelter.

Nirvana, I'm curious, do you think the food industry should not be regulated? I for one am really glad to see more regulation happening, not only for health reasons, but for humane reasons as well. But on the health issue, apparently the cattle industry would kill cows that were so weak and sick they couldn't even stand, and put them out into the food supply. Obama has signed a law now to stop that. ugh. I certainly wouldn't want to eat any of that meat. It's one reason why I never eat read meat anymore, and eat very little meat period. It's sickening what goes on in some of those places.

[Nirvana]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

There are some great dogs at shelters, and some of those puppy mills where people breed purebreds are atrocious. I agree classic, there really are too many domesticated animals out there. So many are put to sleep every year, and some of those animals would make perfectly good family pets. I think a lot of it depends on the breed. Too many people see a movie or something with a dog they think is cute, so they buy one without doing any research if that breed is a good match for them. Then they end up in a shelter.

Nirvana, I'm curious, do you think the food industry should not be regulated? I for one am really glad to see more regulation happening, not only for health reasons, but for humane reasons as well. But on the health issue, apparently the cattle industry would kill cows that were so weak and sick they couldn't even stand, and put them out into the food supply. Obama has signed a law now to stop that. ugh. I certainly wouldn't want to eat any of that meat. It's one reason why I never eat read meat anymore, and eat very little meat period. It's sickening what goes on in some of those places.

There are some great dogs at shelters but lets not blame dog breeders for the dogs that are thrown away by others whether on purpose or thru a bad turn in life.

The food industry is heavily regulated, but having a tax on an animal because it farts is ridiculous. Saying Chickens cannot lay eggs unless you let them wander a pasture while doing it is ridiculous. Obama had nothing to do with the law that was passed in 2003 to stop the use of down cows in any human food product. The reason you saw that on TV after that year was because of a bad PROCESSOR not because of a bad livestock producer. Cows become down for many reasons one of the most common is that an older cow is trampled in the truck on the way to the packer. Most older dairy cows that can no longer produce milk are sold to McDonalds. Cows that cannot stand should not be in the food supply.

[Nirvana]

This is not well known information but all of it is true.


http://www.consumerfreedom.com/downl...hings_HSUS.pdf



http://www.consumerfreedom.com/downl...hings_PETA.pdf

http://www.consumerfreedom.com/downl...hings_PCRM.pdf

Don't give away your rights to own animals or eat what you want because you believe the propaganda spread by these organizations. You don't know what you've got til its gone!

[jinx]

People that pay for the specific animal that they want for a pet rarely discard them. Breeders are not the problem, irresponsible people who don't spay/neuter their pets and don't value their pets (free things have little value to anyone) are the problem.

Originally Posted by Nirvana

This is not well known information but all of it is true.

http://www.consumerfreedom.com/downl...hings_HSUS.pdf


http://www.consumerfreedom.com/downl...hings_PETA.pdf

http://www.consumerfreedom.com/downl...hings_PCRM.pdf

Not to defend, PETA, but in fact, very little on these Center for Consumer Freedom "fact sheets" are documented.

The CCF originally was funded by Phillip Morris to refute the scientific findings re: the harmful effects of smoking and the criticism of tobacco advertising.

Later, they expanded their funding sources to include the meat packing industry, alcohol trade organizations (to fight Mothers Against Drunk Driving), restaurants (to refute obesity studies related to fast food restaurants), and numerous right wing organizations.

My advice...dont believe everything you read by PETA OR about PETA and always consider the source.

The CCF, despite its name, is in many respects, an industry(ies) front group and hardly an unbiased source working solely in the consumers' best interest.

[Nirvana]

Since when are livestock and animal breeders right wing organizations?
PETA is your enemy don't say you were not warned.
HSUS is already in your own state's legislature. Ask anyone in Los Angeles where they have mandatory spay and neuter. WhoTH is the government to tell someone when to neuter a pet? I thought that was a veterinarian's job... Who do you think ends up funding the policing of that program?That is just the beginning of unnecessary expensive legislation supported by the HSUS...

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by Nirvana

There are some great dogs at shelters but lets not blame dog breeders for the dogs that are thrown away by others whether on purpose or thru a bad turn in life...

I didn't mean to imply breeders were responsible for irresponsible pet owners. I did mean to imply that not all breeders are good, and that there are too many animals being put down because of overbreeding, whether by breeders, or by people not spaying/neutering their animals and keeping them fenced in, or by people dumping animals they don't want. It just makes me very sad. If I had a lot of land and money, I would try to give some of them a place to live.

[Nirvana]

Laws won't stop with pet animals
A flood of animal-rights legislation throughout the United States is being
rammed in front of state and federal legislators, driven by organizations such
as the Humane Society of the United States and People for the Ethical
Treatment of Animals.
Legislation in Illinois such as Senate Bill 139 bans tail-docking and
ear-cropping, and House Bill 198 is a heavy-handed dog breeder regulation bill.
Both are to be heard in committee this week in Springfield.
American Kennel Club legislative advisers say HB198 won't move but be put
forward as SB53 to be the vehicle for regulation of dog breeding.
If those bills pass, they will create requirements and regulations that
aren't based on proven animal husbandry practices, nor will they improve the
health and welfare of dogs in Illinois. They will impose breeding permits,
breeding bans and mandatory spaying or neutering of purebred dogs.
Numerical limits don't address the underlying issues of responsible
ownership and proper dog care, according to the AKC and advocates for laws that
protect the welfare of purebred dogs and don't restrict the rights of breeders and
owners who take their responsibilities seriously.
When legislators discuss laws against pet animals, they risk setting a
precedent that could eventually lead to removing farm animals, which would
threaten food-animal production.
Responsible people take animal husbandry seriously. Whether the animals are
pets, food animals, zoo animals, sporting animals or wildlife, the owners,
farmers, medical researchers, wildlife biologists and veterinarians are
interested in the best care for them.
A dairy farmer might not think the proposed draconian laws around dogs will
affect them, but it is the beginning of additional legislation already in
queue that's supported by the animal-rights activists.
A recent American Farm Bureau editorial by Chris Chinn described how newly
proposed legislation in Illinois would "ban egg-laying hen cages, sow stalls
and veal stalls."
Without much imagination, we can see the next step will be imposing more
oppressive laws until even pork producers quit because they can't fulfill the
requirements for care.
We all feel the fatigue of the legislative battles, but that too is a
strategy employed by animal rights and vegan activists, and it is an old reliable
one. Think of deer flies in summer. Deer flies are swinging hatchets aimed at
anyone with animals. Some farmers quit farming because they can't bear the
harassment and accusations.
We also need to draw the big picture for legislators so they understand the
precedent they're considering. Those proposed dog laws threaten the future of
pets (a primary goal of HSUS/PETA - change the culture so animals are not in
our lives in any way - "One generation and out," said Pacelle) but are also
doorways to removing animals used for food production in Illinois and Iowa.
With fewer than 2 million farmers in the country, under the best
circumstances you couldn't recruit new farmers fast enough to replace the loss and meet
the need. Consider the dramatic decline in the number of veterinarians. Read
the General Accounting Office report on the veterinarian shortage and the
risk it poses to public health at www.gao.gov/new.items/d09178.pdf.
Regarding economic interests, what is the tax base in Illinois, Indiana and
Ohio? Who is the constituency? What will be the new economic model in five
years anywhere in the United States?
Laws require enforcement. Enforcement requires resources on streets and in
courtrooms. That suggests the need for more animal rights law attorneys
cultivated by HSUS/PETA and rushing to build their law and political careers
exploiting animals.
People who typically aren't actively involved with animals also need to
understand how their tax money is used for this legislative activity. People such
as social workers and health care providers need to see where their
resources are being squandered by HSUS/PETA as they attempt to further destabilize
the economy at a cost to all of us.
Just this week I worked on grants to fund mental health services and support
for farmers, to support alcohol and drug abuse prevention, to help parents
learn to support good bone growth in their children, and to fund therapeutic
community programs to support veterans returning from war. That's from small
pots of money communities will use to take care of people - many without
access to affordable health care. Communities are writing grants to help support
law enforcement and trying to intervene to keep people out of overcrowded
prisons.
Meanwhile, legislators are spending my tax money to conjure laws that will
rip my dogs out of my arms to kill them. Oh, baby; it isn't gonna happen. This
is an outrage and people need to let their legislators know this isn't
acceptable.
If those laws go into place, the cost will be enormous to enforce.
Who will feed the world, especially in places where the climate is changing
in ways that make it more difficult to grow food already? I doubt we'll see a
big rush for urban residents to move back to farms even to grow spinach or
peanuts. And it isn't likely to happen within 10 years.
There needs to be a big push back. A shake-up once in a while can be
healthy, but this is mass destruction that is far beyond management of breeding
dogs, and it was never about animal welfare. It's about power and control, and in
this equation the real animal welfare advocates - us - have less and less of
either.
We are the genuine advocates for our animals' welfare, as Chinn wrote. This
is a fight for our civil rights, our property rights and our economic
stability. This story must be framed so our legislators see the precipice they hover
over.
Bobbie Kolehouse is a rural community health consultant who raises, shows
and trains her Cocker Spaniels for the field as a hobby in rural Wisconsin
Rapids.

[Nirvana]

Whether they are an advocate or not is a moot point when they are telling you the truth.

Los Angeles already has taken away your right to choose your own health care for your own dog. The link I posted for Maine is about to go before the legislature there if it passes that will effectively end dog /pet ownership in that state.