So how evolved are you? - Page 2

monster · 05-19-2008, 01:02 PM

Death Cab For Cutie I will possess your heart

spudcon · 05-20-2008, 09:53 AM

This reminds me of a movie I once saw, "Love Story," written by Al Gore.

Undertoad · 05-20-2008, 10:37 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohlber...al_development

From a theoretical point of view, it is not important what the participant thinks that Heinz should do. Kohlberg's theory holds that the justification the participant offers is what is significant, the form of their response. Below are some of many examples of possible arguments that belong to the six stages:

Stage one (obedience): Heinz should not steal the medicine because he will consequently be put in prison which will mean he is a bad person. Or: Heinz should steal the medicine because it is only worth $200 and not how much the druggist wanted for it; Heinz had even offered to pay for it and was not stealing anything else.

Stage two (self-interest): Heinz should steal the medicine because he will be much happier if he saves his wife, even if he will have to serve a prison sentence. Or: Heinz should not steal the medicine because prison is an awful place, and he would probably languish over a jail cell more than his wife's death.

Stage three (conformity): Heinz should steal the medicine because his wife expects it; he wants to be a good husband. Or: Heinz should not steal the drug because stealing is bad and he is not a criminal; he tried to do everything he could without breaking the law, you cannot blame him.

Stage four (law-and-order): Heinz should not steal the medicine because the law prohibits stealing, making it illegal. Or: Heinz should steal the drug for his wife but also take the prescribed punishment for the crime as well as paying the druggist what he is owed. Criminals cannot just run around without regard for the law; actions have consequences.

Stage five (human rights): Heinz should steal the medicine because everyone has a right to choose life, regardless of the law. Or: Heinz should not steal the medicine because the scientist has a right to fair compensation. Even if his wife is sick, it does not make his actions right.

Stage six (universal human ethics): Heinz should steal the medicine, because saving a human life is a more fundamental value than the property rights of another person. Or: Heinz should not steal the medicine, because others may need the medicine just as badly, and their lives are equally significant.

HungLikeJesus · 05-20-2008, 11:16 AM

Looking at the bigger picture, if the scientist isn't paid a sufficient amount for his work, he (or others) won't be inspired to develop other life-saving products and procedures (innovation will stop), and so there will be a net loss.

skysidhe · 05-20-2008, 08:56 PM

What about not stealing the medicine because he can't really help her if he's in prision. Then they're both doomed.

I would probably just make a huge stink and that's probably stage two?

monster · 05-20-2008, 09:02 PM

couldn't he take his wife to the pharmacy and have her ingest the medicine there ...and stay there until she poops -is that stealing? It's still on the premises..... and if it works she could be used as an advertisement.....

View Poll Results: Well...how evolved are you?
Obedience/punishment	0	0%
Self-interest	1	7.69%
Interpersonal accord and conformity	1	7.69%
Authority and social-order maintaining	0	0%
Social contract	2	15.38%
Universal ethical principles	5	38.46%
Already reached spiritual Nirvana	0	0%
Still suck my thumb	4	30.77%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

05-19-2008, 01:02 PM	#16
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	Death Cab For Cutie I will possess your heart __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

05-20-2008, 09:53 AM	#17
spudcon Beware of potatoes Join Date: May 2007 Location: Upstate NY, USA Posts: 2,078	This reminds me of a movie I once saw, "Love Story," written by Al Gore. __________________ "I believe that being despised by the despicable is as good as being admired by the admirable."

05-20-2008, 11:16 AM	#19
HungLikeJesus Only looks like a disaster tourist Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: above 7,000 feet Posts: 7,208	Looking at the bigger picture, if the scientist isn't paid a sufficient amount for his work, he (or others) won't be inspired to develop other life-saving products and procedures (innovation will stop), and so there will be a net loss. __________________ Keep Your Bodies Off My Lawn SteveDallas's Random Thread Picker.

05-20-2008, 09:02 PM	#21
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	couldn't he take his wife to the pharmacy and have her ingest the medicine there ...and stay there until she poops -is that stealing? It's still on the premises..... and if it works she could be used as an advertisement..... __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

05-20-2008, 10:37 AM	#18
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kohlber...al_development From a theoretical point of view, it is not important what the participant thinks that Heinz should do. Kohlberg's theory holds that the justification the participant offers is what is significant, the form of their response. Below are some of many examples of possible arguments that belong to the six stages: Stage one (obedience): Heinz should not steal the medicine because he will consequently be put in prison which will mean he is a bad person. Or: Heinz should steal the medicine because it is only worth $200 and not how much the druggist wanted for it; Heinz had even offered to pay for it and was not stealing anything else. Stage two (self-interest): Heinz should steal the medicine because he will be much happier if he saves his wife, even if he will have to serve a prison sentence. Or: Heinz should not steal the medicine because prison is an awful place, and he would probably languish over a jail cell more than his wife's death. Stage three (conformity): Heinz should steal the medicine because his wife expects it; he wants to be a good husband. Or: Heinz should not steal the drug because stealing is bad and he is not a criminal; he tried to do everything he could without breaking the law, you cannot blame him. Stage four (law-and-order): Heinz should not steal the medicine because the law prohibits stealing, making it illegal. Or: Heinz should steal the drug for his wife but also take the prescribed punishment for the crime as well as paying the druggist what he is owed. Criminals cannot just run around without regard for the law; actions have consequences. Stage five (human rights): Heinz should steal the medicine because everyone has a right to choose life, regardless of the law. Or: Heinz should not steal the medicine because the scientist has a right to fair compensation. Even if his wife is sick, it does not make his actions right. Stage six (universal human ethics): Heinz should steal the medicine, because saving a human life is a more fundamental value than the property rights of another person. Or: Heinz should not steal the medicine, because others may need the medicine just as badly, and their lives are equally significant.

05-20-2008, 08:56 PM	#20
skysidhe ~~Life is either a daring adventure or nothing.~~ Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 6,828	What about not stealing the medicine because he can't really help her if he's in prision. Then they're both doomed. I would probably just make a huge stink and that's probably stage two?

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