Installing redhat 7.0 woes - Page 2

02-09-2002, 03:40 PM

Maybe you missed the joke? As in, there's no real business plan in the middle. Just a bunch of nothing.

Nic Name · 02-09-2002, 03:49 PM

Got it.

My point was that for many of the dotcoms, the IPO was the entire business plan. And for some, that plan actually worked.

That Guy · 02-11-2002, 09:25 AM

Alright, juju, you get the credit!
I finally got a few minutes to sit down to this ting today and ran lsmod. I guess the last time I installed, it was there, just not recognized. This time, it wasn't there at all. 3c509.o is the name. I went through about 15 minutes of searching the web for it before I thought to look in /lib/modules. For some reason, I just figured it would've been loaded automatically if it's in /lib. Oh well. Mark another learning experience for me.

So I ran insmod -p 3c509.o and came back with nothing. Then I ran insmod 3c509.o and came back with quite a bit o' stuff. Everything's pinging. I am happy.
Thanks for the help.

02-11-2002, 11:18 AM

Whateva! I told you to paste the output of /proc/modules like 11 hours beforehand! Dork. :P Anyway, glad it's working now.

You will need to add it to an init script so that it's insmod'd every time the system boots. I forget which script this is on Red Hat - I'll check it out and get back to you.

That Guy · 02-12-2002, 02:13 AM

Are you talking about in one of the runlevel startups? I figure it will have to be before eth0 initializes.
Now I'm having problems with Enlightenment. This is my first time to try it out. Anyone know the basics of it? I figured it would come up fine after running /usr/bin/enlightenment.install, but I log out and back in still to find kde running. damndamndamndamn!

02-12-2002, 02:28 AM

You're assuming that Linux programs make sense. That's a big mistake. You will need to tell X specifically that it needs to run Enlightenment (or use a session manager such as GDM). To do so, make a cute little file called .xinitrc in your home directory. Put the following in it:

exec eterm &
exec enlightenment

That will make it so an eterm opens up when you start X, and it will use Enlightenment as the window manager. It is important not to background the enlightenment process - when Enlightenment dies, X will shut down. Same is true if it's backgrounded. So the application that you want to use to determine whether X should be running or not (usually the window manager) should be the last thing in the .xinitrc, such that when it dies, X will shut down as well. I'm not sure if it needs to be last, but it helps me personally keep track of what's going on.

Now, you shouldn't have to do this, but this is <b>Linux</b>, you see. Linux isn't something you can do on the weekends, unfortunately. You have to be full time to really use it. You can do it though. It just takes some time.

Seriously though, there's probably an easier way, such as KDE's login manager. Look for a "session type" selector and see if you can pick "Enlightenment" from that. Hopefully, you'll be in good shape. If not, let me know and we'll talk.

That Guy · 02-12-2002, 10:04 PM

I got Enlighenment up and running from the chooser menu at the login. The E-help screen appeared and gave me a little tutorial, though I never did get any applications menu to appear when I clicked the left mouse button. I'm definitely missing something.

MaggieL · 02-13-2002, 12:01 AM

I started off letting Red Hat configure Gnome, then went to the Gnome panel and picked Enlightenment on Programs/Settings/Desktop/Window Manager....this seems to work fine. By default RedHat will configure Gnome with Sawfish as your window manager. I don't know how well E will run with KDE only; personally I run Gnome with E with KDE compatibility turned on in both Gnome and E. All the KDE apps work just fine, and the Gnome stuff does too.

For your insmod, one script that runs at every startup is /etc/rc.d/init.d/rc.local. There's a more Redhattish place to put it: a Red Hat "Control Panel" that has a kernel module configuration in it, but rc.local will work fine.

It is possible to learn Linux without running it full-time, but it does take longer. I ran it as just a firewall for ages, but eventually took the plunge, while still running a lot of Windows at work, of course. My lifepartner set up her machine as dual-boot, but once she did and got the basic services running, she never went back...especially since she had her old C: drive mounted so she could pick up stuff she'd left behind. Even some of her Windows ham radio programs actually run OK under WINE, which was helpful while she located Linux equvalents.

02-13-2002, 08:04 AM

Problem with rc.local is that it's executed after the network is brought up, which then won't come up if the NIC isn't functioning, which won't function if the module isn't loaded.

rc.local is good for modules for sound cards and the like, but it'll be a real problem for network. For reference, Red Hat executes network as S10 and rc.local as S99 - lower numbers are launched first.

The place to do it is conf.modules or modules.conf, depending on which distro you use. I still haven't looked at mine, though I guess I should right now.

A failsafe way to do it is to add it through linuxconf, which is probably on your system. However, it's NOT on mine so I can't walk you through it.

However, add this line to /etc/modules.conf and reboot.

alias eth0 3c509

where 3c509 is the name of your kernel module. That should hopefully do it.

MaggieL · 02-13-2002, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dhamsaic
Problem with rc.local is that it's executed after the network is brought up, which then won't come up if the NIC isn't functioning, which won't function if the module isn't loaded. rc.local is good for modules for sound cards and the like, but it'll be a real problem for network. For reference, Red Hat executes network as S10 and rc.local as S99 - lower numbers are launched first.

Yike...good point. D'oh.

Quote:

[i]
The place to do it is conf.modules or modules.conf, depending on which distro you use. I still haven't looked at mine, though I guess I should right now.

That's what the kernel gadget in control-panel diddles....and also linuxconf. linuxconf rocks, except when it's being stupid. I'm kind of surprised that kudzu didn't probe the card initially, but I hear 7.2 overhauls a *lot* of network crap. The pppd and dialer stuff "rp3" stinks and has since it was interoduced....one of the larger incentives for me going to 7.2, which I still haven't done yet, of course.

02-13-2002, 11:20 AM

I hate Internet Explorer. I just had this long ass post written out, accidentally hit Backspace when I wasn't in the text box and now it's gone.

To recap: Linuxconf is cool but can be a pain in the ass.

Kudzu didn't like my KVM and wanted to reinstall the mouse every time I booted, so I disabled it.

The proper way to disable a service on Red Hat is to use the chkconfig program - i.e., become root with its environment set up (su -) and run

chkconfig sendmail off
chkconfig kudzu off

The proper way to kill/restart/stop a service is via the "service" command -

service sendmail restart
service sshd stop

I was delighted when I found these things out - I used to manually rename the init scripts for services and when I wanted to stop other ones, I'd issue a command like

/etc/rc.d/rc3.d/S10network restart

but just doing "service network restart" is much easier.

Many people don't know about those commands, so I thought I'd go ahead and toss 'em out there.

MaggieL · 02-13-2002, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nic Name
Got it. My point was that for many of the dotcoms, the IPO was the entire business plan. And for some, that plan actually worked.

See: Underpants Gnomes, South Park episode 217....which is where that was quoting from.

Gnome:This is where all our work is done.
Cartman:So what are you gonna do with all these underpants that you steal?
Gnome:Collecting underpants is just phase 1. Phase 1: collect underpants.
Kyle:Sooo, what's phase 2?
Gnome:[has no response. Looks around, then calls out to the other gnomes on the underpants mound] Hey, what's phase 2?
Gnome 2:Phase 1: we collect underpants.
Gnome:Yeah yeah yeah, but. What about phase 2?
Gnome 2:[says nothing, then] Well, phase 3 is profit. Get it?
Stan:I don't get it.
Gnome 2:[walks up to a large chart] You see, Phase 1: collect underpants. Phase 2: ? Phase 3: Profit.
Cartman:Oh, I get it.
Stan:No you don't, fatass!
Kyle: Do you guys know anything about corporations?
Gnome:You bet we do!
Gnome 2:Us gnomes are geniuses at corporations.

It was poking fun at that kind of "business plan", which worked only long enough for the investment bankers to pump-and-dump the stock. Post-Enron, that kind of stunt may be a little harder to do. Maybe.

But there *are* ways to make money from open-source, it's just more than a little a bit harder than hooking your customers on a proprietary secret-source product and then exploiting them because they're locked in. That approach works a bit longer than stealing underpants, but ultimately when your customers are tired of getting screwed and the differential between the value of what they're getting and what it really costs them is too negative, they'll move on to another solution.

The problem is, these kind of technical, economic and market forces operate on such a scale as to be invisible to software company management who are driving the company by watching the quarterly numbers and the stock price. It's a bit like driving a car by watching the oil pressure and ammeter. It's true that those need watching too, your car will melt down if there's no oil. But those instruments won't help you actually get anywhere.

That Guy · 02-13-2002, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dhamsaic
I hate Internet Explorer. I just had this long ass post written out, accidentally hit Backspace when I wasn't in the text box and now it's gone.

The same thing just happened to me on another post. You can left-click the text box and whup up a little undo action in there usually.

These are all great ideas, but I'll have to wait until I get home. The telnet gateway at work won't let me ssh out. And unfortunaltey, we don't have an ssh gateway.
I've tried to stay away from things like linuxconfig and other graphical sysadmin tools until I get a real feel for what happening behind the scenes. Sometimes it's the only way to get where I want to be, but I lose the feel for the OS that way.

jaguar · 02-13-2002, 02:28 PM

blowme, you have more than one computer?
set up a telnet server on it, then telet into that, then use that to ssh into your other box.
If not mabye someone else here has one they could lend you (shell)

02-13-2002, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by blowmeetheclown
The same thing just happened to me on another post. You can left-click the text box and whup up a little undo action in there usually.

BTW -

not when you hit Backspace, which goes Back a page in your browser. Then go forward, where it SHOULD be, but it's not because IE redraws the form. Go Fucking Figure. P.S. - this is what happened to me.

02-11-2002, 11:18 AM	#19
dave Guest Posts: n/a	Whateva! I told you to paste the output of /proc/modules like 11 hours beforehand! Dork. :P Anyway, glad it's working now. You will need to add it to an init script so that it's insmod'd every time the system boots. I forget which script this is on Red Hat - I'll check it out and get back to you. Last edited by dave; 02-11-2002 at 11:20 AM.

02-13-2002, 12:01 AM	#23
MaggieL in the Hour of Scampering Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Jeffersonville PA (15 mi NW of Philadelphia) Posts: 4,060	I started off letting Red Hat configure Gnome, then went to the Gnome panel and picked Enlightenment on Programs/Settings/Desktop/Window Manager....this seems to work fine. By default RedHat will configure Gnome with Sawfish as your window manager. I don't know how well E will run with KDE only; personally I run Gnome with E with KDE compatibility turned on in both Gnome and E. All the KDE apps work just fine, and the Gnome stuff does too. For your insmod, one script that runs at every startup is /etc/rc.d/init.d/rc.local. There's a more Redhattish place to put it: a Red Hat "Control Panel" that has a kernel module configuration in it, but rc.local will work fine. It is possible to learn Linux without running it full-time, but it does take longer. I ran it as just a firewall for ages, but eventually took the plunge, while still running a lot of Windows at work, of course. My lifepartner set up her machine as dual-boot, but once she did and got the basic services running, she never went back...especially since she had her old C: drive mounted so she could pick up stuff she'd left behind. Even some of her Windows ham radio programs actually run OK under WINE, which was helpful while she located Linux equvalents. __________________ "Neither can his Mind be thought to be in Tune,whose words do jarre; nor his reason In frame, whose sentence is preposterous..."

02-13-2002, 02:28 PM	#29
jaguar whig Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 5,075	blowme, you have more than one computer? set up a telnet server on it, then telet into that, then use that to ssh into your other box. If not mabye someone else here has one they could lend you (shell) __________________ Good friends, good books and a sleepy conscience: this is the ideal life. - Twain

02-09-2002, 03:40 PM	#16
dave Guest Posts: n/a	Maybe you missed the joke? As in, there's no real business plan in the middle. Just a bunch of nothing.

02-09-2002, 03:49 PM	#17
Nic Name retired Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,930	Got it. My point was that for many of the dotcoms, the IPO was the entire business plan. And for some, that plan actually worked.

02-11-2002, 09:25 AM	#18
That Guy He who reads, sometimes writes. Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: at the keyboard Posts: 791	Alright, juju, you get the credit! I finally got a few minutes to sit down to this ting today and ran lsmod. I guess the last time I installed, it was there, just not recognized. This time, it wasn't there at all. 3c509.o is the name. I went through about 15 minutes of searching the web for it before I thought to look in /lib/modules. For some reason, I just figured it would've been loaded automatically if it's in /lib. Oh well. Mark another learning experience for me. So I ran insmod -p 3c509.o and came back with nothing. Then I ran insmod 3c509.o and came back with quite a bit o' stuff. Everything's pinging. I am happy. Thanks for the help.

02-12-2002, 02:13 AM	#20
That Guy He who reads, sometimes writes. Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: at the keyboard Posts: 791	Are you talking about in one of the runlevel startups? I figure it will have to be before eth0 initializes. Now I'm having problems with Enlightenment. This is my first time to try it out. Anyone know the basics of it? I figured it would come up fine after running /usr/bin/enlightenment.install, but I log out and back in still to find kde running. damndamndamndamn!

02-12-2002, 02:28 AM	#21
dave Guest Posts: n/a	You're assuming that Linux programs make sense. That's a big mistake. You will need to tell X specifically that it needs to run Enlightenment (or use a session manager such as GDM). To do so, make a cute little file called .xinitrc in your home directory. Put the following in it: exec eterm & exec enlightenment That will make it so an eterm opens up when you start X, and it will use Enlightenment as the window manager. It is important not to background the enlightenment process - when Enlightenment dies, X will shut down. Same is true if it's backgrounded. So the application that you want to use to determine whether X should be running or not (usually the window manager) should be the last thing in the .xinitrc, such that when it dies, X will shut down as well. I'm not sure if it needs to be last, but it helps me personally keep track of what's going on. Now, you shouldn't have to do this, but this is <b>Linux</b>, you see. Linux isn't something you can do on the weekends, unfortunately. You have to be full time to really use it. You can do it though. It just takes some time. Seriously though, there's probably an easier way, such as KDE's login manager. Look for a "session type" selector and see if you can pick "Enlightenment" from that. Hopefully, you'll be in good shape. If not, let me know and we'll talk.

02-12-2002, 10:04 PM	#22
That Guy He who reads, sometimes writes. Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: at the keyboard Posts: 791	I got Enlighenment up and running from the chooser menu at the login. The E-help screen appeared and gave me a little tutorial, though I never did get any applications menu to appear when I clicked the left mouse button. I'm definitely missing something.

02-13-2002, 08:04 AM	#24
dave Guest Posts: n/a	Problem with rc.local is that it's executed after the network is brought up, which then won't come up if the NIC isn't functioning, which won't function if the module isn't loaded. rc.local is good for modules for sound cards and the like, but it'll be a real problem for network. For reference, Red Hat executes network as S10 and rc.local as S99 - lower numbers are launched first. The place to do it is conf.modules or modules.conf, depending on which distro you use. I still haven't looked at mine, though I guess I should right now. A failsafe way to do it is to add it through linuxconf, which is probably on your system. However, it's NOT on mine so I can't walk you through it. However, add this line to /etc/modules.conf and reboot. alias eth0 3c509 where 3c509 is the name of your kernel module. That should hopefully do it.

02-13-2002, 11:20 AM	#26
dave Guest Posts: n/a	I hate Internet Explorer. I just had this long ass post written out, accidentally hit Backspace when I wasn't in the text box and now it's gone. To recap: Linuxconf is cool but can be a pain in the ass. Kudzu didn't like my KVM and wanted to reinstall the mouse every time I booted, so I disabled it. The proper way to disable a service on Red Hat is to use the chkconfig program - i.e., become root with its environment set up (su -) and run chkconfig sendmail off chkconfig kudzu off The proper way to kill/restart/stop a service is via the "service" command - service sendmail restart service sshd stop I was delighted when I found these things out - I used to manually rename the init scripts for services and when I wanted to stop other ones, I'd issue a command like /etc/rc.d/rc3.d/S10network restart but just doing "service network restart" is much easier. Many people don't know about those commands, so I thought I'd go ahead and toss 'em out there.

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