Shooting at Virginia Tech

[Shawnee123]

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet
1. Seriously, follow it out to it's logical conclusion - ultimately, you have to kill someone to "protect yourself". Anything short of that leaves you unprotected. Got it?

You are not unprotected if you wound someone trying to kill you. So you are incorrect.

And if you're not "protecting" yourself or a loved one, is it worth killing for?

Many people kill in the line of duty, police and military come to mind most quickly and I am sure that there are others, who may in the course of their duties in those capacities who may need to kill when they are neither "protecting themselves or loved ones", for example they may be protecting others.

[Clodfobble]

Sorry man, I have crap to do sometimes.

It comes down not to what they're taking, but the manner in which they're taking it.

--If you break into my house, I don't care if it's just to admire the decor, you are worthy of being shot.
--If you walk by me on the street and jerk my piece of gum out of my hands and keep walking, no, that is not worth shooting over.
--If you pull out a knife and demand that I give you my gum, then yes, you are worthy of being shot.

Each scenario is different, and I consider the average person capable of differentiating.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Sorry man, I have crap to do sometimes.

It comes down not to what they're taking, but the manner in which they're taking it.

--If you break into my house, I don't care if it's just to admire the decor, you are worthy of being shot.
--If you walk by me on the street and jerk my piece of gum out of my hands and keep walking, no, that is not worth shooting over.
--If you pull out a knife and demand that I give you my gum, then yes, you are worthy of being shot.

Each scenario is different, and I consider the average person capable of differentiating.

I don't know... If your house is fully engulfed in fire, you don't go back in, or send a family member in to get your stuff. You're thankful that you and yours got out without injury - that what you lost was onlt "stuff". If someone with a knife wants your gum, and you try to stop him, you and/or your loved ones could end up harmed - is it worth it? Even if you draw you gun and kill him, think of the shit you'll have to go through. You many even regret it, creating emotional problems for yourself. And what if the assailant falls dead, and his knife accidently slices little clod on the way down? Or if your child has post traumatic stress disorder from seeing his mom waste another human being? How could these results be more favorable than giving the fucker the gum, and moving on with your life?

[jinx]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

...How could these results be more favorable than giving the fucker the gum, and moving on with your life?

How do you know that's what will happen? Crystal ball? Crazy people with weapons don't always do what you think is logical. So, then what? More barbed wire and flood lights?

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by jinx

How do you know that's what will happen? Crystal ball? Crazy people with weapons don't always do what you think is logical. So, then what? More barbed wire and flood lights?

You're right, anything could happen, especially from someone accosting you with a gun. He's already broken many social norms to do that. If someone points a gun at me and says "give me your gum", I figure if he wanted to kill me, I'd be dead already. If she wanted to rape me, I figure she'd say "take your clothes of and make that weenie hard, hot stuff" or something.

Would you really rather kill someone than put up barbed wire and flood lights?

[jinx]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

If someone points a gun at me and says "give me your gum", I figure if he wanted to kill me, I'd be dead already.

Yeah, because since that's what they always say on tv, it must be how it works.

Would you really rather kill someone than put up barbed wire and flood lights?

Once again you've phrased something so poorly as to make it intellectually dishonest... but yes, yes I would. Are you seriously suggesting I should live like a prisoner so that criminals are a little safer?

[elSicomoro]

I dunno about that Clod...sometimes, the judgment of Americans scares the shit out of me.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

Sorry man, I have crap to do sometimes....

Hold on a darn minute, thar! Are you insinuating that there is something in this world more important than posting on the Cellar? I think Syc's right:

Originally Posted by sycamore

I dunno about that Clod...sometimes, the judgment of Americans scares the shit out of me.

The Cellar comes first, damnit!

[Undertoad]

Yeah -- if someone threatens you with deadly force for GUM, they might be a tad unpredictable!

[Clodfobble]

How could these results be more favorable than giving the fucker the gum, and moving on with your life?

That all assumes that all he really wants is my gum. If I could be guaranteed that all I would lose is my stuff, like I would in a fire, then no, I probably wouldn't escalate the situation by bringing out my weapon. But you have no idea what's going to happen when someone's already at the point of threatening another person with a weapon. I would have to assess the situation as it arose--but if I had no weapon, then that whole set of options would be unavailable to me if it turned out he really wanted more than the gum.

I know you don't want to legislate the guns away, you just want to convince people of their foolishness, but I don't think you really understand that the very fact that I might have a gun is a huge deterrant for him, whether or not I do have one. Truth is, we don't actually own a gun, because I don't have the extra cash or the time/interest in proper upkeep of the machinery. We had them in my family growing up, and I would certainly consider it in the future if our lifestyle or neighborhood changed. But if I ever hear anyone breaking into our house, you can be sure that the first thing I will do is yell, "Honey, get the gun!"

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

...But if I ever hear anyone breaking into our house, you can be sure that the first thing I will do is yell, "Honey, get the gun!"

I guess you would scare away an unarmed intruder, but if I broke into a house, and had a gun, and heard that, I would shoot the first thing that moved, figuring I would get shot if I hesitated.

[duck_duck]

That fact anybody in america feels they need a gun to protect themselves says a lot about the state of crime in that nation.

[freshnesschronic]

Originally Posted by duck_duck

That fact anybody in america feels they need a gun to protect themselves says a lot about the state of crime in that nation.

YEAH YEAH we heard your rant, we know you are from a gun banning culture, blah blah blah I already argued with you about it. Give the same statements a rest!!! America is a criminal nation wow what else is new from you yack yack yack.

[duck_duck]

Originally Posted by freshnesschronic

YEAH YEAH we heard your rant, we know you are from a gun banning culture, blah blah blah I already argued with you about it. Give the same statements a rest!!! America is a criminal nation wow what else is new from you yack yack yack.

Don't be such a crybaby about it. It isn't my fault your crime is so high.