Watching the Democrats - it's Fun and Macabre!

[Adak]

Originally Posted by IamSam

Well, we could always grab all our guns, head for the hills, and demand the repeal of the Patriot Act.

I'm waiting for a case to go to the Supreme Court, on this Carnivore project in Utah. That's so invasive of our privacy, it's incredible.

The Patriot Act was just another "knee jerk, Washington needs to do something, and this is something, so we must do it", law. I doubt if it's legal - maybe during the wars in Iraq, etc., but after the troops come home from Afghanistan, the freedoms we gave up in that act, are going to seem like too much to give away, permanently.

I sure hope so.

[ZenGum]

Originally Posted by Adak

And it's MUCH better than yanking the rug out from underneath our second amendment rights. Once the gov't has knocked those down, we'll never get them back.

And not to be a doomsayer, but once they can knock one part of the Bill of Rights down, then clearly they can see about knocking down other parts, as well. All they need is some kind of an emergency (real or imagined), and they'll be all over it.

These are serious concerns. They're just in the wrong thread, that's all.
They should be in a thread with a title mentioning Bush, Cheney, Patriot Act, and the last 12 years.

Warrantless wire-tapping? Detention without trial? "Enhanced interrogation"?

If you seriously think your gun rights are effectively protecting all your other rights, you haven't been paying attention for the last 12 years.

[Adak]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

These are serious concerns. They're just in the wrong thread, that's all.
They should be in a thread with a title mentioning Bush, Cheney, Patriot Act, and the last 12 years.

Warrantless wire-tapping? Detention without trial? "Enhanced interrogation"?

If you seriously think your gun rights are effectively protecting all your other rights, you haven't been paying attention for the last 12 years.

I agree with you 100%! The Patriot Act was a disaster for our freedoms, and Carnivore is only going to make it worse!

But after the troops are all back, I believe they both will be challenged or maybe just have their spending cut out from under them.

[regular.joe]

Originally Posted by Adak

Most accidents with firearms are caused by kids or adults...

Isn't this the entire population?


Sent from an undisclosed location.

[Sundae]

/\ word /\

[Adak]

Obama was sworn in as President, today - in the appropriately named "Blue" room, of the White House.

(He'll repeat it publicly tomorrow.)

You might reasonably believe that this would herald the end of his re-election campaign efforts -- but NO!

Now his re-election campaign has morphed into a 501c Corporation, that will run 24/7/365, to facilitate his agenda. That means his donors names can be hidden (and nobody likes hiding the facts, better than Obama -- ever).

Michelle Obama related how on their first date, Barrack talked about how he wanted to "transform the country".

I don't WANT a Socialist country, Mr. Obama! Kinda like the freedoms we had BEFORE the Patriot act.

Bundlers expected to bring in the $$$$, met for an hour and a half in the White House on Friday, so their strategy and tactics could be laid out with Obama and his staff.

I believe this is the very first time that such an organization has been formed, to run as a political fund raiser and lobby group, for a sitting President.

Somebody pass the Pepto over.

[xoxoxoBruce]

A you-can't-haz-tea party.

[sexobon]

If you had said that guns were made to kill, I'd agree with you. Anyone who knows anything about the real world use of guns knows that shooting to wound is Hollywood fantasy. When you say that they can only be used to hunt and kill humans ["His guns only have one purpose. To hunt and kill humans."] you
deny the reality that they can also be used in self defense just as readily as a single shot pistol or a baseball bat.

47 rounds per minute is easily accomplished with just low capacity magazines. A proficient wheelgun shooter can even do it with a 6 shot revolver and speed loaders. Your assertion that the application of the firearm, rather than the purpose for which it was designed, determines whether or not it constitutes an assault weapon is erroneous. It's like saying that an automobile driver who runs someone else over was therefore driving an assault car.

There are whacko extremists on both sides of this issue. Don't be one of them.

[IamSam]

AAAARGH!

Hasn't this thread died yet?

Adam Lanza used a semiautomatic Bushmaster .223 rifle.

Am I the only one around here who fact checks Adak?

.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2312818.html

NEWTOWN, Conn. -- Adam Lanza used a semiautomatic Bushmaster .223 rifle during his rampage through Sandy Hook Elementary School on Friday, firing dozens of high-velocity rounds as he killed 20 children and six adults, authorities said Sunday.


http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/12/19/...in-gun-debate/
When 20-year-old Adam Lanza walked into the Sandy Hook Elementary School on Dec. 14, he carried two handguns, several hundred rounds of ammunition and a rifle that has become a flashpoint in the ongoing debate over gun rights in America.
Police say that the 20 children and six adults killed at the school were murdered with a .223 caliber Bushmaster AR-15 rifle.


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/17/us...anted=all&_r=0
But the AR-15 style rifle — the most popular rifle in America, according to gun dealers — was also the weapon of choice for Adam Lanza, who the police said used one made by Bushmaster on Friday to kill 20 young children and six adults in an elementary school in Newtown, Conn., in a massacre that has horrified the nation.


Etc., etc., etc. Hey! Remember Google?

Adak's youtube clip is just that - a cute little snip out of context.

[Griff]

Early reports had the .223 in the trunk of the car and the nutter using the pistols. I haven't been following the spin but the gun folks I hang with give those reports a lot of weight. The other gun industry rumor I hear is that the FedGov already controls the number of rounds manufacturers produce per year so there has been a squeeze in ammo for a while, creating a backdoor control.

[IamSam]

I frequent another, larger board that has a preponderance of right wing users. They went with the "no Bushmaster was used" thing earlier, but now seem resigned to the fact that a semi-automatic was involved in the shootings - if they believe the shootings took place at all.

The entire Sandy Hook thing was a conspiracy. You know that, right? It was all staged so Obama and his Muslim friends could take away our second amendment rights.

So many conspiracy theories, so little time.

[Griff]

.

[Adak]

Originally Posted by IamSam

AAAARGH!

Adam Lanza used a semiautomatic Bushmaster .223 rifle.

Unfortunately, the NBC report was the one misinforming.

Thanks for clearing up the confusion, Sam.

[tw]

Originally Posted by sexobon

When you say that they can only be used to hunt and kill humans ["His guns only have one purpose. To hunt and kill humans."] you deny the reality that they can also be used in self defense just as readily as a single shot pistol or a baseball bat.

A) If assault weapons are for personal defense, then so are 155 mm howitzers. The obvious conclusion using your logic (rhetoric). What does one really need for defense? A 22 Derringer. Or a shotgun. Why does anyone need NATO gauge weapons? Many adults still think like fearful children. Why did my father so love advertising? (Will you again reply with an extremist cheapshot or this time reply to that actual fact?). Fun is to manipulate those who parrot propaganda. Who can not think for themselves. Propaganda inspires adults who are still children.

B) Why do cops routinely not carry assault rifles? Those most easily manipulated will avoid damning facts. Even cops only need such weapons when adults (who are still children) are hunting other humans. What is the best heavy weapon used by cops? Shotgun. A weapon that will always be legal because it is a weapon of choice among adults who are adults.

A shotgun is too little thrill. So NATO weapons, armor piecing rounds, bazookas, and big clips are needed. Shredding a paper target is a bigger hard-on than putting holes in it. NRA rhetoric targets adults who 'feel' they know.

C) Sexbon's reasoning proves Americans have a right to and need for 155 mm howitzers and grenades. Purpose of assault weapons is only to kill humans. Sexbon et al will recite myths, lies, rhetoric, or advertising to avoid that reality.

Wackos also said civilians need hollow point bullets. Because the NRA said so. No civilian needs hollow point bullets (also called cop killers). Cops are the enemy of extremists. The NRA knows who to brainwash to increase profits. People who know only using emtion.

Even ghettos are now safer because more people carry weapons: using NRA and Sexbon logic.

D) Why did the NRA push through laws that ban government from doing research? NRA must empower the dumbest among us. NRA's greatest fears were found in a CDC study that proved that a homeowner's gun is 43 times more likely to be used on a family member. Demonstrates why a gun is a poor defensive weapon. NRA must keep facts from adults who are adults. So that wackos can justify 3 to 13 bullets in the bodies of 1st graders.

BTW, research also says most human hunters are not mentally unstable. But are emotional; characteristic of an adult who is still a child. Profits are highest among the adults most easily manipulated by emotion and propaganda. NRA propaganda targets adults who 'know' using emotion rather then the prefrontal cortex.

Fun is brainwashing those who are so easily manipulated by emotion and spin.

E) What is the purpose of the NRA? Maximize profits. Nothing else. Also the purpose of the mafia. Maximize profits at expense of everything (everyone) else. NRA must even subvert informed discussion and research. So that lies will prove assault weapons are needed for personal safety.

Sexbon proves why all need hollow point bullets and 155 mm howitzers. Sexbon recited NRA rhetoric. Because that increases industry profits - the NRA's only purpose. NRA targets adults who are most easily brainwashed by rhetoric. Had Sexbon asked a damning question, then he would not be justifying 155 mm howitzers and anti-tank weapons.

F) 47 rounds every minute do not happen when the clip must be repeatedly replaced. Obvious if thinking for yourself - not reciting an NRA lie.

Informed moderates know why the LI Railroad shooter killed so few people. He had to reload. Therefore he was taken out by people using their weapons - hands and feet. The emotional (illogical) need big clips to hunt and kill more poeple. Big clips and assault weapons have no other purpose.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by tw

B) Why do cops routinely not carry assault rifles?

Because they prefer an AR-15 semi-automatic rifle.
From the Massachusetts Municipal Police Training Committee’s Basic Firearms Instructor Course.

We have found most officers have difficulty hitting the MPTC Q target with regularity using their service pistol at distances further than the 10 yard line. Now, factor in the stress level of a life and death encounter with rapidly evolving circumstances – the actual hit ratio drops even further. Beyond 15 yards the shotgun with multiple round projectile, may yield more hit potential however the recoil and manual operation of the shotgun has historically proved to be an issue with some Officers. If the load is buck shot, beyond 18 yards the shot spread will begin to exceed the width of the torso. This violates the accountability for all rounds down range rule. The slug round provides the logical alternative with longer range, more accuracy and no shot spread. It also has greater penetration which can be considered both a positive and negative factor when considering its use in urban areas or near thin walled homes. Conversely, the most popular patrol rifle round, the 5.56mm NATO (.223 Remington) will penetrate fewer walls than service pistol rounds or 12 gauge slugs.