Mar 17th, 2016: Zouaves

xoxoxoBruce · 03-16-2016, 11:15 PM

Zouaves were French army units who were used in North Africa, then the Crimea, and Mexico, before the US Civil War.
They started as mostly Berbers from Algeria, hence the odd clothing, and built a reputation as elite badass fighters.

In the US, starting with the revolution the standing army was very small, with the government gathering and training
troops as needed. That was reasonably quick as most every man could shoot and ride a horse.
Cannons could be taught quickly to small groups, but most fighting was done by men with rifles.

The favorite way in the North, and South, was to accept locally organized groups(2nd amendment militias) into the army.
Somebody would post handbills and newspaper articles about forming a group, then when locals joined they’d peer pressure
their buddies into joining, telling them the alternative would be going off with a bunch of strangers who might be Irish,
Jews, or some other group. This was a strong incentive because people from different ethnic/religious backgrounds,
even in the cities, didn’t mingle and peacefully coexist like today.

Another trick was forming a Zouave looking group with similar uniforms, as the dime novels and newspapers had spread the
exploits of these badass fighters. The first battalion formed in Chicago and traveled around showing off their close order drilling.
Then numerous cities followed suit, but NY’s Hawkin’s Zouaves was the first to actually join the army.
It didn’t hurt that the ladies swooned at the sight of these gaily dressed soldiers.

I think I'd rather wear camo.

Gravdigr · 03-17-2016, 03:30 PM

/Drift

On the left hand Manhattan Rifles poster, I see LtCol Geo. Watson. I know "Geo." is short for George, like "Wm." is short for William...

...What is "Jno." (Major Jno. Freeman) short for?

Diaphone Jim · 03-17-2016, 06:58 PM

"That was reasonably quick as most every man could shoot and ride a horse."
I guess that is one way to catch 'em and break 'em, but it must have made for a slow calvary.

Big Sarge · 03-17-2016, 08:13 PM

Jno is short for John

xoxoxoBruce · 03-17-2016, 11:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diaphone Jim

"That was reasonably quick as most every man could shoot and ride a horse."
I guess that is one way to catch 'em and break 'em, but it must have made for a slow calvary.

Wut?
OK Jim, you lost me. Calvary is in Israel, there are Calvary churches around these parts, but I'm guessing you meant Cavalry.
I said most every man could shoot and ride a horse. That means organizing infantry was a snap, and a good head start on organizing a Cavalry unit.
I'm pretty sure you were being a smartass, which is cool, but this time too far over my head. I'm not a smart man.

Clodfobble · 03-17-2016, 11:37 PM

He just meant that if you shoot them THEN ride them, they probably won't be much good for riding anymore.

xoxoxoBruce · 03-18-2016, 12:02 AM

Ah

Of course, eats shoots and leaves, I left out the comma.

Thank you, that went right over my head.

Diaphone Jim · 03-18-2016, 11:17 AM

Smartass comments suffer greatly from stepping on one's typing fingers.
I had a bad feeling about "calvary," but pushed "post" anyway.
What the heck, I was in the infantry.
I also should have mentioned that I found the post interesting and entertaining. as usual.

Griff · 03-18-2016, 11:23 AM

I like the cellar because of exchanges like this.

Gravdigr · 03-18-2016, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Sarge

Jno is short for John

If that was in jest please disregard the following:

1. Why would one shorten 'John'? 'Jno.' is the same space as 'John'.

2. Why would one mix up the letters?

Sorry, I have an inquiring mind.

ETA: Just did some more research, confirming what Sarge told me. Why, WHY, would you transpose letters in an abbreviation? That seems to be obfuscation at it's finest. It just fucks my mind up. Jno = John, so, EUV must = Federal Bureau of Investigation. If you were going to shorten John, why would you not use Jon, or, Jhn? Jno makes zero goddamned sense.

Yeah, this is the hill I'm dying on today.

Big Sarge · 03-18-2016, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gravdigr

If that was in jest please disregard the following:

1. Why would one shorten 'John'? 'Jno.' is the same space as 'John'.

2. Why would one mix up the letters?

Sorry, I have an inquiring mind.

ETA: Just did some more research, confirming what Sarge told me. Why, WHY, would you transpose letters in an abbreviation? That seems to be obfuscation at it's finest. It just fucks my mind up. Jno = John, so, EUV must = Federal Bureau of Investigation. If you were going to shorten John, why would you not use Jon, or, Jhn? Jno makes zero goddamned sense.

Yeah, this is the hill I'm dying on today.

Another strange thing - Jno was seldom used as an abbreviation Jonathan

Gravdigr · 03-18-2016, 02:47 PM

Yeah, one site I looked at specifically ruled out Jonathan.

Weird.

xoxoxoBruce · 03-18-2016, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diaphone Jim

Smartass comments suffer greatly from stepping on one's typing fingers.
I had a bad feeling about "calvary," but pushed "post" anyway.
What the heck, I was in the infantry.
I also should have mentioned that I found the post interesting and entertaining. as usual.

I reread what I wrote a dozen times, but I was reading what I meant and not what I actually wrote. That's why god invented editors, I guess.

I knew there was a joke in there and was frustrated that I couldn't see it.
As soon as Clodfobble clued me in it became so clear.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback. Like they say, it's not you, it's me.

Gravdigr · 03-19-2016, 03:15 PM

Hey!!

If it's anybody, it's me!

DanaC · 03-19-2016, 03:55 PM

When it was abbreviated in that form in handwritten letters and documents, the 'o' I think sat below the 'n'

03-16-2016, 11:15 PM	#1
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Mar 17th, 2016: Zouaves Zouaves were French army units who were used in North Africa, then the Crimea, and Mexico, before the US Civil War. They started as mostly Berbers from Algeria, hence the odd clothing, and built a reputation as elite badass fighters. In the US, starting with the revolution the standing army was very small, with the government gathering and training troops as needed. That was reasonably quick as most every man could shoot and ride a horse. Cannons could be taught quickly to small groups, but most fighting was done by men with rifles. The favorite way in the North, and South, was to accept locally organized groups(2nd amendment militias) into the army. Somebody would post handbills and newspaper articles about forming a group, then when locals joined they’d peer pressure their buddies into joining, telling them the alternative would be going off with a bunch of strangers who might be Irish, Jews, or some other group. This was a strong incentive because people from different ethnic/religious backgrounds, even in the cities, didn’t mingle and peacefully coexist like today. Another trick was forming a Zouave looking group with similar uniforms, as the dime novels and newspapers had spread the exploits of these badass fighters. The first battalion formed in Chicago and traveled around showing off their close order drilling. Then numerous cities followed suit, but NY’s Hawkin’s Zouaves was the first to actually join the army. It didn’t hurt that the ladies swooned at the sight of these gaily dressed soldiers. I think I'd rather wear camo. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

03-17-2016, 03:30 PM	#2
Gravdigr The Un-Tuckian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: South Central...KY that is Posts: 39,517	/Drift On the left hand Manhattan Rifles poster, I see LtCol Geo. Watson. I know "Geo." is short for George, like "Wm." is short for William... ...What is "Jno." (Major Jno. Freeman) short for? __________________ These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA, EPA, FBI, DEA, CDC, or FDIC. These statements are not intended to diagnose, cause, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. If you feel you have been harmed/offended by, or, disagree with any of the above statements or images, please feel free to fuck right off.

03-17-2016, 08:13 PM	#4
Big Sarge Werepandas - lurking in your shadows Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: In the Deep South Posts: 3,408	Jno is short for John __________________ Give a man a match, & he'll be warm for 20 seconds. But toss that man a white phosphorus grenade and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

03-17-2016, 11:37 PM	#6
Clodfobble UNDER CONDITIONAL MITIGATION Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 20,012	He just meant that if you shoot them THEN ride them, they probably won't be much good for riding anymore. __________________ My book My other book My spirit animal

03-18-2016, 12:02 AM	#7
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Ah Of course, eats shoots and leaves, I left out the comma. Thank you, that went right over my head. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

03-17-2016, 06:58 PM	#3
Diaphone Jim Junior Master Dwellar Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Northern California Posts: 2,122	"That was reasonably quick as most every man could shoot and ride a horse." I guess that is one way to catch 'em and break 'em, but it must have made for a slow calvary.

03-18-2016, 11:17 AM	#8
Diaphone Jim Junior Master Dwellar Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Northern California Posts: 2,122	Smartass comments suffer greatly from stepping on one's typing fingers. I had a bad feeling about "calvary," but pushed "post" anyway. What the heck, I was in the infantry. I also should have mentioned that I found the post interesting and entertaining. as usual.

03-18-2016, 11:23 AM	#9
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	I like the cellar because of exchanges like this. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

03-18-2016, 02:47 PM	#12
Gravdigr The Un-Tuckian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: South Central...KY that is Posts: 39,517	Yeah, one site I looked at specifically ruled out Jonathan. Weird. __________________ These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA, EPA, FBI, DEA, CDC, or FDIC. These statements are not intended to diagnose, cause, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. If you feel you have been harmed/offended by, or, disagree with any of the above statements or images, please feel free to fuck right off.

03-19-2016, 03:15 PM	#14
Gravdigr The Un-Tuckian Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: South Central...KY that is Posts: 39,517	Hey!! If it's anybody, it's me! __________________ These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA, EPA, FBI, DEA, CDC, or FDIC. These statements are not intended to diagnose, cause, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. If you feel you have been harmed/offended by, or, disagree with any of the above statements or images, please feel free to fuck right off.

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