DOG

[xoxoxoBruce]

Oh, your cats catch mice... isn't that cute.

[Sundae]

Hmm. Don't know how I feel about that. Obviously I have to state my bias as a rat-owner. I know these dogs are not killing domestic rats, but seeing it is still going to be close enough to be uncomfortable.

Also, it's the sheer glee of the owners.
Diz and Dylan couldn't hunt - bless their furry chops - but I took no pleasure when Raphael and Gabriel brought home "gifts". I was certainly not impressed by the fully grown live magpie in the kitchen, although that was more because we were all terrified by it, rather than for animal-loving reasons.

I suppose if rats are a problem, then it's a natural and humane way to deal with them. It's fast and gives them a chance to use their skills, unlike poison bait or traps.
I just don't like to see humans getting so excited about the death of an animal.

[fargon]

These are nasty dirty rats, that bite children and spread disease.

[xoxoxoBruce]

And spoil crops, but worst of all those rat bastards are the ones that lured cats into their semi-domesticated lifestyle.

[DanaC]

So we should revel in their death throes, laying down our vengeance on our tiny enemies?

Sundae's point was not that the rats should not be hunted. Indeed, she actually says:

I suppose if rats are a problem, then it's a natural and humane way to deal with them. It's fast and gives them a chance to use their skills, unlike poison bait or traps.

What she was objecting to, and I agree with her point, was 'humans getting so excited about the death of an animal.'

[xoxoxoBruce]

Oh, you know these people? You're sure they aren't reveling in the skill, tenacity, and success of their dogs?
Jesus Dana, you've read enough history to know what a problem rats are, how many millions of people they've killed, not only from bites/infection, but disease, the plague, and starvation. Look at the wildlife that's been decimated by rats on islands they've gotten to. Mice are cute, Rats are stone evil.

Center for Disease Control

Hantavirus Pulmonary Syndrome (HPS): Hantavirus pulmonary syndrome (HPS) is a deadly disease transmitted by infected rodents through urine, droppings, or saliva. Humans can contract the disease when they breathe in aerosolized virus. HPS was first recognized in 1993 and has since been identified throughout the United States. Although rare, HPS is potentially deadly. Rodent control in and around the home remains the primary strategy for preventing hantavirus infection.

Murine Typhus: Murine typhus (caused by infection with R. typhi) occurs worldwide and is transmitted to humans by rat fleas. Flea-infested rats can be found throughout the year in humid tropical environments, but in temperate regions are most common during the warm summer months. Travelers who visit in rat-infested buildings and homes, especially in harbor or riverine environments, can be at risk for exposure to the agent of murine typhus.

Rat-bite fever (RBF): Rat-bite fever (RBF) is a systemic bacterial illness caused by Streptobacillus moniliformis that can be acquired through the bite or scratch of a rodent or the ingestion of food or water contaminated with rat feces.

Salmonella enterica serovar Typhimurium: As its name suggests, it causes a typhoid-like disease in mice. In humans S. Typhimurium does not cause as severe disease as S. Typhi, and is not normally fatal. The disease is characterized by diarrhea, abdominal cramps, vomiting and nausea, and generally lasts up to 7 days. Unfortunately, in immunocompromized people, that is the elderly, young, or people with depressed immune systems, Salmonella infections are often fatal if they are not treated with antibiotics.

Leptospirosis: Leptospirosis is a bacterial disease that affects humans and animals. It is caused by bacteria of the genus Leptospira. In humans it causes a wide range of symptoms, and some infected persons may have no symptoms at all. Symptoms of leptospirosis include high fever, severe headache, chills, muscle aches, and vomiting, and may include jaundice (yellow skin and eyes), red eyes, abdominal pain, diarrhea, or a rash. If the disease is not treated, the patient could develop kidney damage, meningitis (inflammation of the membrane around the brain and spinal cord), liver failure, and respiratory distress. In rare cases death occurs.

Eosinophilic Meningitis: Eosinophilic meningitis is an infection of the brain occurring in association with an increase in the number of eosinophils, white blood cells that are associated with infection with worms that penetrate into the body. The organism most commonly causing eosinophilic meningitis is a rat lung worm called angiostrongylus cantonensis.

[fargon]

Wild rats bad, Wild Cats good.

[DanaC]

Rats are not evil. They're just animals. I don't have a problem with killing them. I have killed rats myself.

You're sure they aren't reveling in the skill, tenacity, and success of their dogs?

That, right there, is the only salient point in your post. I can get my head around being excited by my animal's skills and training. I cannot fathom how anybody would get a kick out of the rat'sdeath itself, and it baffles me that anybody can respond to a post about not liking to see humans revel in an animal's suffering with the justification that rats are evil/harmful/dangerous. Nobody denied they can cause terrible disease and suffering. Neither Sundae nor I have suggested that nobody should ever kill a rat.The harm rats have done and continue to do, is no reason to delight in their suffering.

Sundae made a point about not liking to see humans excited by the rats'deaths,and was answered with this: 'These are nasty dirty rats, that bite children and spread disease.' That,is a reallygood reason for killing rats. It's not a really good reason for enjoying it. Unless you feel some sort of vengeance is in order. And that - when applied to a rodent - is fucking ridiculous.

But yes - the flipside is that those people may have just been excited about their dogs' skills and the success of their training.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Balderdash, we should all have cupcakes and fizzy drinks in jubilation, every time one of those spawn of hell dies.
I can understand Sundae's affliction, she even feeds the flying rats, and bushy tailed tree rats, in the park.
But a historian should have a better grasp on the menace they are, and the stellar service these dogs perform on humanities behalf. The human companions celebration on our behalf, is certainly warranted. My only regret is the vermin are dispatched so quickly, there's no time to hang them by their disease ridden tails and watch their eyeballs boil and burst in the flames of justice.
Did you read about the human babies eaten alive in India, South Africa, Mexico and Kansas city, by this scourge?

[Undertoad]

If the city's vermin control was doing its job, those rats would not be torn apart by dogs. They would be dying a slow, two-week-long agonizing death due to shock and anemia after internal hemorrhaging.

[DanaC]

Like Sundae said - if they're going to die, then this is probably the kindest and most natural way.

[sexobon]

Perhaps it's also a natural coping mechanism for people who don't particularly want to kill animals; but, need to for their own safety, to band together in such a way as to get each other and their companion animals psyched up to perform an unpleasant task that needs to be done.

[Undertoad]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Like Sundae said - if they're going to die, then this is probably the kindest and most natural way.

I was surprised how much kinder.

As a 14 year old, I poisoned rats and managed the carcasses at a farmhouse nearly destroyed by low-class renters. I must have taken out 20 of them. I wish we had dogs. That would have been awesome.

[busterb]

Some where there's a record set by a rat terrier, in England, for the most rats killed in X amount of time. Boy it was a bunch.

[Undertoad]

And remarkable, because most dogs are not very bright.