Paris attacks

[DanaC]

Lamp's comments were overly harsh, but I see what he means about some of it. I doubt very much that bruce intended his comment to denigrate the syrian refugees - but the implied assumption that, unlike previous waves of refugees, the syrian refugees would be particularly uneducated, unskilled and unable to communicate in english definitely plays into an unpleasant and unfair stereotype.

The majority of those making such a journey are the people with the resources to do so, including access to funds and contacts. The proportion of refugees with higher education and an at one time affluent or middle-class background is much higher than in the general syrian population. Also - probably much higher than in the host communities they go to.

As an aside - we need to stop thinking about radicalism as a disease of the poor and uneducated - it's the other way around now. Look at which young men (and women) are travelling to and from syria pedalling extremism - how often do we hear that they were students?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I doubt very much that bruce intended his comment to denigrate the syrian refugees - but the implied assumption that, unlike previous waves of refugees, the syrian refugees would be particularly uneducated, unskilled and unable to communicate in english definitely plays into an unpleasant and unfair stereotype.

These are not the people you've worked with in the past. From what I’ve seen, these are not emigres, they’re refugees. They didn’t liquidate their assets and arrange passage, but grab what they could carry and run. And after walking for days dropped half what they thought they could carry, to what they could actually carry.

Normal people have their wealth tied up in real estate and personal possessions, not something easily transported or easily liquidated in a war zone. Make no mistake, Syria is a war zone and has been for some time. Even if these refugees worked in an office or have manual skills in a trade, that doesn’t automatically apply to jobs here. Why even a skilled Syrian carpenter is probably used to that archaic metric system.

Most are likely Muslims of some flavor, may or may not speak some English, and have little or no money. To plunk them in Detroit, where they don’t have the support of a community similar to themselves, expecting them to find employment paying enough for a family to live on, no less rehab an abandon (and likely gutted house), is ludicrous.
Christ, the natives, who are familiar with navigating Detroit, are struggling to keep their head above water, working multiple jobs just to feed the family.
This will tell you what's happening in Detroit.

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

<snip>To plunk them in Detroit, where they don’t have the support of a community similar to themselves,
expecting them to find employment paying enough for a family to live on,
no less rehab an abandon (and likely gutted house), is ludicrous. <snip>

The concept of settling refugees in Detroit was only one of several presented in my earlier post.
I don't remember having previously seen or read about such an idea.
But as this tread has developed, I did a search in Google News.
Guess what ! The concept was not original with me.

Here is one article from just last September... It includes a reference to an opinion piece
published in May of 2015: Let Syrians Settle Detroit

It is just a little ironic that the Governor of Michigan, Rick Snyder,
who now is a GOP ringleader of this witch hunt, was a serious advocate
of welcoming Syrian refugees into Michigan, and specifically settling them in Detroit.

Syrian refugees eager to build new lives in metro Detroit
Detroit Free Press - Niraj Warikoo, - September 30, 2015
Up to 100 Syrian refugees have arrived in Michigan this year, with more expected in coming months.

Gazing through his living room window in a quiet block in Garden City,
a 48-year-old Syrian refugee ponders his new life in America.
"In Syria, there's no safety; it's too dangerous," Moustafa Assad said
from a sparsely furnished home he rents, with his two sons sitting next to him on his couch.
"At least here, it's safe for them. There's no war. ... I want to stay here
for my kids' future so they can go to school and learn."

Assad's hopes are echoed by up to 100 Syrian refugees who have arrived in Michigan this year,
one of almost 1,500 who came to the U.S. in 2015, fleeing Syria's four-year civil war and refugee camps.

In Michigan, state officials, elected representatives and Arab-American social service agencies
are keen to welcome refugees, saying they could help the region and repopulate areas like Detroit.

An opinion piece in the New York Times in May, cowritten by a Stanford University professor
who called for bringing Syrian refugees to Detroit, has sparked discussion about how refugees could help the city.

"This will add to the population of Detroit," said Haifa Fakhouri, president of the Arab American and Chaldean Council.
"And it will bring economic benefits."

Fakhouri, U.S. Sen. Gary Peters, D-Mich., and Gov. Rick Snyder say the state should be welcoming.
On Tuesday, Snyder said that refugees can be an asset to Michigan's economy,
saying that some of them "were professionals; they were people who hire people and tend to create jobs."

Detroit Mayor Mike Duggan said through a spokesman that "everyone is welcome in Detroit, including refugees from Syria.

My point is that quite a few government officials and community leaders
have looked into and supported this is as a valid concept for Detroit.

At least until the GOP scare tacticians got busy...
BE AFRAID ... BE AFRAID ... BE AFRAID


Yes, I know. I have cherry picked items for this post.

.

[Griff]

Syrian Refugees Don’t Pose a Serious Security Threat (Cato)


Of the 859,629 refugees admitted from 2001 onwards, only three have been convicted of planning terrorist attacks on targets outside of the United States, and none was successfully carried out. That is one terrorism-planning conviction for every 286,543 refugees that have been admitted. To put that in perspective, about 1 in every 22,541 Americans committed murder in 2014. The terrorist threat from Syrian refugees in the United States is hyperbolically over-exaggerated and we have very little to fear from them because the refugee vetting system is so thorough.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

The Gov of Michigan is one of the ringleaders of this witch-hunt.

Imagine how many vacant houses in Detroit could be made into homes by Syrian refugees.
Maybe these refugees would even be willing to fix them up a bit, and pay taxes on them,
and work in the community, and have kids, and join the military, and ... you know,
the same sort of things other refugees have done when given asylum in the US.

( Some might even become Republicans)

.

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

The concept of settling refugees in Detroit was only one of several presented in my earlier post.

I think you better reread that post I was responding to. For the convenience of your failing memory, I've brought the entire post here, but go ahead and check, it's post #46, I'll wait. Now please point out these "several ideas" in that post you claim I was ignoring.

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

For the convenience of your failing memory,
I've brought the entire post here, but go ahead and check, it's post #46, I'll wait.
Now please point out these "several ideas" in that post you claim I was ignoring.

I have already replied to that... in post #56

Subsequently, I replied to your statement that the concept was "ludicreous", in post #80.

[xoxoxoBruce]

All you did in #56 was twist my words with your interpretation of what you wanted them to really mean.

In #80 you quote my response to your post about giving refugees the abandoned houses in Detroit. Then go into people who are in favor of accepting refugees, which I never disputed, in fact said do it right. Topping it off with a quote from a Syrian who is happy in the suburb of Garden City which is a far fucking cry from the abandoned houses in Detroit.

So once again, your post #46 was an ill conceived idea to which I respond...

There was a lot of bitching about the Vietnamese refugees also, because the prolonged war which affected almost everyone. But they had money, and the skills to succeed in a better financial climate.

Syrians, work where? The jobs that allow vacant houses to be rehabbed and pay taxes on the result, have gone to China, Mexico, India. So you bring in refugees with nothing but the shirt on their back, may or may not speak English, then expect them to support themselves and rehab real estate? Lofty goals indeed. There has to be a plan to address those issues if you expect them to integrate and be successful. Otherwise they become destitute and desperate... prime for recruiting by terrorists.

I'm not saying keep them out, I'm saying do it right.

There's no need to cherry pick and twist what I'm saying, it's plain English, and I stand by it.