Scouts get pwned

[BigV]

OF COURSE the chartering organization will

"... allow church-run units to pick leaders who agree with their moral precepts."

duh. The only change I see is that the decision to NOT permit / choose an adult who is gay cannot now be laid at the feet of the national organization "Sorry, rules are rules". The policy doesn't say homosexuality is a qualifying characteristic, only that it is no longer a disqualifying characteristic. I'm ok with that. I think it's still possible that bigots who are homophobes will object to a gay candidate for leadership on the grounds that they don't like gays.

I'm not sure how that's different than some vague "Thanks for your application, we don't see a good fit here, no thank you." y'know? I may well be speaking from a position of a white cis male, but it's the only one I have. But I don't think that a troop should be obligated to accept all applications for leadership positions.

I have been involved with Scouting for about 20 years as an adult and for a little while as a kid. I know gay scouts, I know gay adults. I know gay scouts who've turned 18 and been disqualified to transition into junior adult leadership positions *because of this rule*, which was a stupid rule. Now that's not a problem anymore. Though I know they exist, I haven't met any publicly vocal homophobes. For our Troop and Crew, it means that the choices we've been making all along no longer illustrate the stupidity of the national policy.

[xoxoxoBruce]

I readily admit I don't know shit about the scouts, but I don't understand the term "Church Run". Does the church sponsor the troop, provide meeting space, pay for activities/expenses? I thought a troop was self operating, chartered by, and only answering to a regional council... and of course helicopter parents.

I know gay scouts who've turned 18 and been disqualified to transition into junior adult leadership positions *because of this rule*, which was a stupid rule.

Who enforces this, the regional council? How to they even know? Does someone complain? Do they scan facebook looking for signs of the gay? I mean there's rules against jaywalking, but in most places you'd have to be run over for it to become an issue.

[Lamplighter]

...Who enforces this, the regional council? How to they even know? Does someone complain? Do they scan facebook looking for signs of the gay? I mean there's rules against jaywalking, but in most places you'd have to be run over for it to become an issue.

The courts pay attention when someone files a suit alleging discrimination.

Parents of gay children paid attention when their child was blocked from joining.

Other non-profit organizations that are competing for contributions
via United Way really pay attention when $ is distributed.

Donors to organizations like United Way pay attention when they decide
how much and to which organizations they want to contribute to United Way

United Way officials pay attention when contributions drop for these reasons.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I readily admit I don't know shit about the scouts, but I don't understand the term "Church Run". Does the church sponsor the troop, provide meeting space, pay for activities/expenses? I thought a troop was self operating, chartered by, and only answering to a regional council... and of course helicopter parents.

Each unit (troop/pack.etc.) has a charter organization, which is usually a local church. The charter organization "owns" the unit. Is the legal owner of the bank account and all equipment and approves all leaders. Often provides meeting and storage space. Does not usually fund the unit. In my experience, the charter organization is usually pretty hands off. But if it wants to flex its muscle, it has a lot of muscle to flex.

The district, council, and national scout organizations help to administer the program, do training, plan regional events, run camps, etc.

[chrisinhouston]

Originally Posted by glatt

Each unit (troop/pack.etc.) has a charter organization, which is usually a local church. The charter organization "owns" the unit. Is the legal owner of the bank account and all equipment and approves all leaders. Often provides meeting and storage space. Does not usually fund the unit. In my experience, the charter organization is usually pretty hands off. But if it wants to flex its muscle, it has a lot of muscle to flex.

The district, council, and national scout organizations help to administer the program, do training, plan regional events, run camps, etc.

This was the basis for the BSA denying any responsibility for leaders who abused kids up until the mid 80's. They argued that it was the chartered partner's responsibility to vet leaders. The problem was that the BSA national HQ would keep records on leaders accused of abuse but not step up to disqualify or report them to authorities which left the abusers free to move to another unit when they need to. There were many lawsuits against the BSA in the 20 years or so leading up to the change of position on leadership. The BSA instituted new training called "Youth Protection" to help units, partners and other leaders protect kids from abuse and cull out abusive leaders. There is a book called "Scout's Honor" which details the history of abuse in the BSA.

[chrisinhouston]

I was a very involved volunteer in the BSA from 1980 to about 2000 when I pretty much quit. I started as a Tiger Cub leader when my oldest son wanted to join at age 7. I held just about every position in his and his brother's pack and then later in the troop where I was an assistant SM. I was on the District Committee and earned the District Award of Merit. I was on Council committees and was awarded the council's highest award, the Silver Beaver. I think when I left I had 10 or 11 square knots which are the BSA awards for various things. I even attended the World Jamboree in Chile in 1998 where I was on the international staff as one of the photographers. 2 of my 3 sons are Eagle Scouts.

I got tired of the BS. BSA was always preaching that they were just there for materials and training but in the end it kept coming down to increasing the number of units, membership and selling subscriptions to Boys Life. As District Chairman I saw many instances of our District Executive (the paid guy with BSA) making up numbers for "ghost units" that really did not exist. I saw a lot of behind the scenes stuff that turned me off.

At the World Jamboree I saw how other Scouts from around the world were more inclusive. They allowed co-ed units and a great variety of members with no prohibitions on anyone. The US BSA is one of the few that still uses the church sponsored model which I think has been part of the problems.

After the SCOTUS ruling in BSA vs Dale I just decided to put my energy elsewhere.

[Lamplighter]

Although it is a step in the right direction, the "new" policy of the BSA with regards to religious groups
will be continue to be a stumbling point across the breadth of Scouting in the USA.
... not just a policy issue, but a legal issue and a financial issue.

The following article is a pretty good discussion, starting with the LDS church,
and continuing with other legal, religious, and social leaders.

Mormons hint they may bolt Boy Scouts
CBS/AP July 28, 2015, 4:08 AM

<snip>
The Mormon church, which sponsors more Scout units that any other organization,
said it was "deeply troubled" by the decision. Church officials suggested they
would look into the possibility of forming their own organization to replace the Boy Scouts.

Several denominations that collectively sponsor close to half of all Scout units
- including the Roman Catholic Church, the Mormon church and the Southern Baptist Convention -
have been apprehensive about ending the ban on gay adults.

The BSA's top leaders have pledged to defend the right of any church-sponsored units
to continue excluding gays as adult volunteers.
But that assurance has not satisfied some conservative church leaders.

But...

"It's hard for me to believe, in the long term, that the Boy Scouts will allow religious groups
to have the freedom to choose their own leaders," said the Rev. Russell Moore,
president of the Southern Baptist Convention's Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission.<snip>

Stuart Upton, a lawyer for the LGBT-rights group Lambda Legal, questioned whether
the BSA's new policy to let church-sponsored units continue to exclude gay adults would be sustainable.

And over the past few years...

The BSA faced potential lawsuits in New York and other states if it continued to enforce its ban,
which had been upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court in 2000.

Since then, the exclusionary policy has prompted numerous major corporations
to suspend charitable donations to the Scouts, and has strained relations
with some municipalities that cover gays in their non-discrimination codes.

Like several other major youth organizations, the Boy Scouts have experienced
a membership decline in recent decades. Current membership, according to the BSA,
is about 2.4 million boys
<snip>

.

[xoxoxoBruce]

The Mormon church, which sponsors more Scout units that any other organization,
said it was "deeply troubled" by the decision. Church officials suggested they
would look into the possibility of forming their own organization to replace the Boy Scouts.

With merit badges in corporate raiding, labor abuse, buying elections, and baptizing long dead people.

[tw]

Originally Posted by chrisinhouston

After the SCOTUS ruling in BSA vs Dale I just decided to put my energy elsewhere.

That is when BSA membership dropped significantly. Even some more 'religious' churches (such as Anglicans) discontinued their BSA association.

BSA recently decided that religion and BSA rules should not be imposed on anyone's sexual beliefs. That makes righteous (which also means hateful) religious leaders (who also ignored pedophilia) to become resentful.