State of The Cellar 2015

Undertoad · 01-16-2015, 06:43 PM

Ladies and gentlemen, oldheads and newbs, the state of The Cellar is strong.

During the last 12 months of our time, The Cellar statistics show a consistency of post traffic. From January through December, the number of posts per month remains quite similar. The number remains well off the site’s peaks, which happened in 2007 and 2009. But the quality of posts remains solid, and the quality of users has remained top notch.

For many, the smaller post numbers are welcomed, as it makes it possible to take in the entire Cellar experience. During its peaks, many users stopped reading the entire forum, as the volume of posts became intimidating. The Cellar is now in a more digestible form and does not face a problem of too many "casual" users.

Challenges

Facebook et al: In recent years, there has been an Internet trend away from forums, due to the encroachment of Facebook and other social websites. At this time there is no need to explore different types of social software; we believe that Facebook cannot be the "be-all, end-all" of the Internet. We believe that Facebook has lingering developing readership issues. We further believe that those who wish to have The Cellar type of online experience will look outside social media for connections, perhaps even in greater numbers.

New Users: At this time there are too few new users registering. Too little fresh blood is danger for a forum. The Image of the Day has generally been the main draw to find and convert new Dwellars, but the feature is no longer actively written by any of us, and the Blog View has fallen out of date in design and function.

Infrastructure: Too strong, actually. The Cellar’s current platform of owned servers in a rented rack is overkill for the smaller level of traffic we now host. It also depends on a client of UT’s paying the bulk of the rental of the space. The Cellar will eventually need to move to a different and cheaper platform. (Nothing about the forum would change in such a move.)

Technological: The version of software that The Cellar runs is many versions behind current. This is because the original developer sold out many years ago, to a concern that was more interested in money than quality. Your humble operator noticed this trend with vBulletin 4, and did not upgrade. More recent levels of vBulletin have been poor quality, and expensive, and there is much anger from forum owners.

Our older software has not been a problem for us; it’s as full-featured as we need. Many very important forums on the net continue to run vBulletin 3, and even vBulletin 2. But there are now known security issues that we are simply living with. It is likely that we will eventually NEED to change, which is not much fun for anybody.

Strengths

Community: The Cellar community continues to be its own strongest asset. The strength of the community means that it has a certain amount of momentum which can carry it through changes and smaller problems. You guys are fucking awesome, and you should know that.

Moderation: Perfect right where it is IMO.

Platform: Despite its cost and size, the current platform of both software and hardware does permit a great deal of flexibility should it suddenly become needed for any reason.

Ideas for 2015

>> Reviving Image of the Day with a new interface that allows auto-posting, easier submission of entries, voting on prospective entries, and a Facebook hook. Pro: This would answer a lot of things at the same time, some things that should have gone in years ago, and would be a way to prod Facebookers to become Dwellars, instead of the other way ‘round. Con: it’s a LOT of work.

>> What else ya got?

BigV · 01-16-2015, 06:55 PM

I, for one, welcome such an uplifting message from our benevolent overlord and master, Undertoad. I rise from my seat in the moderates section and applaud, inviting my worthy opponents on the other side of the aisle, the noble, but misguided extremists, to join me in supporting the host of our forum.

Huzzah!

Undertoad · 01-16-2015, 06:57 PM

I thought it would be funny if I used the "editorial we".

xoxoxoBruce · 01-16-2015, 07:24 PM

If you used The royal "we", and The author's "we", along with The editorial "we", you could we, we, we, all the way home.

Ok that was lame. Anyway, thanks UT, for all you've done and continue to do.

I'm sorry it's such a struggle to get the tip jar filled every month. I'm sure there are members struggling between paychecks and they shouldn't feel bad not being able to, but those of us who are eating regularly(and probably too much) could drop a peso in once in awhile.

footfootfoot · 01-16-2015, 07:44 PM

I like your ideas for iotd, for the time being while I am aimlessly searching the internet for distraction from pressing and urgent duties I could funnel extraordinary images this way. CONS: My therapist is likely going to try to instill better habits in me but, as Ted Kennedy said, We'll drive off that bridge when we get to it.

Is there a clear set of parameters for IOTD? It seems that the best ones have a cool backstory rather than just a wow, that's purty. Would it make sense to make them consistently relevant to seasons or holidays or news or just keep it random?

Undertoad · 01-16-2015, 08:02 PM

Oh making it relevant is pretty much impossible.

The original concept was just images that are mind-boggling in some way, or at least interesting for some reason. It was better when I had time, motivation, and discipline about the project, and could write a lot. A lot of write-up isn't critical, but it helps.

But hey, all this is a lot of work just waiting for me to do, including some that I don't know if it's really possible. It needs an image uploader that is secure and doesn't take a lot of maintenance. I have a quickie uploader that I use which is not good enough for this function, I think.

regular.joe · 01-16-2015, 08:47 PM

UT, I'm not a new guy and I'm not an old guy. I think the Cellar is great. Kind of like Lake Wobegon. All the women are strong, all the men are good lookin, and kids are little above average.

glatt · 01-17-2015, 07:39 AM

We've lost some really good members, and we've lost a few dickheads, but I really think we have a good group of people now.
We don't have the good quality political discussions we used to , but I think that's a reflection of society in general. There is no good quality political discussion anywhere.

From my perspective, our only problem is no new members are coming in, but the flip side of that is that we are a closer community as a result.

Griff · 01-17-2015, 09:33 AM

I'm doing more cellar reading lately after giving basebook a shot. The lack of clutter and straight talk here really appeals so much more. Its interesting that people are more open and real here than there.

footfootfoot · 01-17-2015, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Griff

I'm doing more cellar reading lately after giving basebook a shot. The lack of clutter and straight talk here really appeals so much more. Its interesting that people are more open and real here than there.

How Facebook makes us unhappy. I wonder if they texted Monster, the study was done in her town.

monster · 01-17-2015, 11:56 PM

texting pisses me off, so I avoid it.

facebook made me unhappy when this study was published because my feed suddenly became full of locals posting barf-inducing shite about how happy facebook makes them because they so enjoy reading all the trivial but positive minutiae in everyone's lives ....and then a zillion people liking that shit because otherwise they would be seen as being negative....

It's so hard to be a cynical bitch on there

glatt · 01-18-2015, 07:14 AM

Yeah, you can't be honest on Facebook. But it's good for sharing pictures with grandparents.

Carruthers · 01-18-2015, 09:57 AM

Thanks for running the place UT, and thanks to the mods/admin team limey and glatt.

I've never quite understood the appeal of Facebook and am surprised that it has drawn people away from forums such as this.

I think that your opening address should be published as a video presentation with you sitting at a large oak desk with flags and a coat of arms in the background.

You could always start off with the words 'Fellow Dwellars'.

SteveDallas · 01-18-2015, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Oh making it relevant is pretty much impossible.

The original concept was just images that are mind-boggling in some way, or at least interesting for some reason. It was better when I had time, motivation, and discipline about the project, and could write a lot. A lot of write-up isn't critical, but it helps.

There was also less competition. Now there are so many pic-scraping bots all over the place.

xoxoxoBruce · 01-18-2015, 03:10 PM

Steve! Baby! Glad you're alive and kickin' it.

01-16-2015, 06:43 PM	#1
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	State of The Cellar 2015 Ladies and gentlemen, oldheads and newbs, the state of The Cellar is strong. During the last 12 months of our time, The Cellar statistics show a consistency of post traffic. From January through December, the number of posts per month remains quite similar. The number remains well off the site’s peaks, which happened in 2007 and 2009. But the quality of posts remains solid, and the quality of users has remained top notch. For many, the smaller post numbers are welcomed, as it makes it possible to take in the entire Cellar experience. During its peaks, many users stopped reading the entire forum, as the volume of posts became intimidating. The Cellar is now in a more digestible form and does not face a problem of too many "casual" users. Challenges Facebook et al: In recent years, there has been an Internet trend away from forums, due to the encroachment of Facebook and other social websites. At this time there is no need to explore different types of social software; we believe that Facebook cannot be the "be-all, end-all" of the Internet. We believe that Facebook has lingering developing readership issues. We further believe that those who wish to have The Cellar type of online experience will look outside social media for connections, perhaps even in greater numbers. New Users: At this time there are too few new users registering. Too little fresh blood is danger for a forum. The Image of the Day has generally been the main draw to find and convert new Dwellars, but the feature is no longer actively written by any of us, and the Blog View has fallen out of date in design and function. Infrastructure: Too strong, actually. The Cellar’s current platform of owned servers in a rented rack is overkill for the smaller level of traffic we now host. It also depends on a client of UT’s paying the bulk of the rental of the space. The Cellar will eventually need to move to a different and cheaper platform. (Nothing about the forum would change in such a move.) Technological: The version of software that The Cellar runs is many versions behind current. This is because the original developer sold out many years ago, to a concern that was more interested in money than quality. Your humble operator noticed this trend with vBulletin 4, and did not upgrade. More recent levels of vBulletin have been poor quality, and expensive, and there is much anger from forum owners. Our older software has not been a problem for us; it’s as full-featured as we need. Many very important forums on the net continue to run vBulletin 3, and even vBulletin 2. But there are now known security issues that we are simply living with. It is likely that we will eventually NEED to change, which is not much fun for anybody. Strengths Community: The Cellar community continues to be its own strongest asset. The strength of the community means that it has a certain amount of momentum which can carry it through changes and smaller problems. You guys are fucking awesome, and you should know that. Moderation: Perfect right where it is IMO. Platform: Despite its cost and size, the current platform of both software and hardware does permit a great deal of flexibility should it suddenly become needed for any reason. Ideas for 2015 >> Reviving Image of the Day with a new interface that allows auto-posting, easier submission of entries, voting on prospective entries, and a Facebook hook. Pro: This would answer a lot of things at the same time, some things that should have gone in years ago, and would be a way to prod Facebookers to become Dwellars, instead of the other way ‘round. Con: it’s a LOT of work. >> What else ya got?

01-16-2015, 06:55 PM	#2
BigV Goon Squad Leader Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,063	I, for one, welcome such an uplifting message from our benevolent overlord and master, Undertoad. I rise from my seat in the moderates section and applaud, inviting my worthy opponents on the other side of the aisle, the noble, but misguided extremists, to join me in supporting the host of our forum. Huzzah! __________________ Be Just and Fear Not.

01-16-2015, 07:24 PM	#4
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	If you used The royal "we", and The author's "we", along with The editorial "we", you could we, we, we, all the way home. Ok that was lame. Anyway, thanks UT, for all you've done and continue to do. I'm sorry it's such a struggle to get the tip jar filled every month. I'm sure there are members struggling between paychecks and they shouldn't feel bad not being able to, but those of us who are eating regularly(and probably too much) could drop a peso in once in awhile. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

01-16-2015, 07:44 PM	#5
footfootfoot To shreds, you say? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in the house and on the street-how many, many feet we meet! Posts: 18,449	I like your ideas for iotd, for the time being while I am aimlessly searching the internet for distraction from pressing and urgent duties I could funnel extraordinary images this way. CONS: My therapist is likely going to try to instill better habits in me but, as Ted Kennedy said, We'll drive off that bridge when we get to it. Is there a clear set of parameters for IOTD? It seems that the best ones have a cool backstory rather than just a wow, that's purty. Would it make sense to make them consistently relevant to seasons or holidays or news or just keep it random? __________________ The internet is a hateful stew of vomit you can never take completely seriously. - Her Fobs

01-16-2015, 08:47 PM	#7
regular.joe Старый сержант Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: NC, dreaming of large Russian women. Posts: 1,464	UT, I'm not a new guy and I'm not an old guy. I think the Cellar is great. Kind of like Lake Wobegon. All the women are strong, all the men are good lookin, and kids are little above average. __________________ Birth, wealth, and position are valueless during wartime. Man is only judged by his character --Soldier's Testament. Death, like birth, is a secret of Nature. - Marcus Aurelius.

01-16-2015, 06:57 PM	#3
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	I thought it would be funny if I used the "editorial we".

01-16-2015, 08:02 PM	#6
Undertoad Radical Centrist Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Cottage of Prussia Posts: 31,423	Oh making it relevant is pretty much impossible. The original concept was just images that are mind-boggling in some way, or at least interesting for some reason. It was better when I had time, motivation, and discipline about the project, and could write a lot. A lot of write-up isn't critical, but it helps. But hey, all this is a lot of work just waiting for me to do, including some that I don't know if it's really possible. It needs an image uploader that is secure and doesn't take a lot of maintenance. I have a quickie uploader that I use which is not good enough for this function, I think.

01-17-2015, 07:39 AM	#8
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	We've lost some really good members, and we've lost a few dickheads, but I really think we have a good group of people now. We don't have the good quality political discussions we used to , but I think that's a reflection of society in general. There is no good quality political discussion anywhere. From my perspective, our only problem is no new members are coming in, but the flip side of that is that we are a closer community as a result.

01-17-2015, 09:33 AM	#9
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	I'm doing more cellar reading lately after giving basebook a shot. The lack of clutter and straight talk here really appeals so much more. Its interesting that people are more open and real here than there. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

01-17-2015, 11:56 PM	#11
monster I hear them call the tide Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Perpetual Chaos Posts: 30,852	texting pisses me off, so I avoid it. facebook made me unhappy when this study was published because my feed suddenly became full of locals posting barf-inducing shite about how happy facebook makes them because they so enjoy reading all the trivial but positive minutiae in everyone's lives ....and then a zillion people liking that shit because otherwise they would be seen as being negative.... It's so hard to be a cynical bitch on there __________________ The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity Amelia Earhart

01-18-2015, 07:14 AM	#12
glatt ™ Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 27,717	Yeah, you can't be honest on Facebook. But it's good for sharing pictures with grandparents.

01-18-2015, 09:57 AM	#13
Carruthers Junior Master Dwellar Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Buckinghamshire UK Posts: 4,059	Thanks for running the place UT, and thanks to the mods/admin team limey and glatt. I've never quite understood the appeal of Facebook and am surprised that it has drawn people away from forums such as this. I think that your opening address should be published as a video presentation with you sitting at a large oak desk with flags and a coat of arms in the background. You could always start off with the words 'Fellow Dwellars'.

01-18-2015, 03:10 PM	#15
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Steve! Baby! Glad you're alive and kickin' it. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

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