Winter Tips for Plumbing

[footfootfoot]

Originally Posted by tw

If a plumber knew his job, then a building can be heated to only 40 degrees (5 degrees C) and no pipes freeze. Problem is so many plumbers who never learned their job.

Freezing pipes are best corrected in the summer. If any water pipe is inside an exterior wall, then the plumbing is completely defective and should be changed.

Identify a defect easily. Does a pipe exit from an exterior wall to connect to a sink or toilet? Or does it come up through the floor?

Winter is a time to identify other problems. No floor in any interior room should feel cold. But even in 1970, many contractors said insultation was unnecessary in that space between floors. No amount of reasoning could change their attitude. Because they were told those spaces between joists did not need insulation on exterior surfaces. Then pipes between the floors freeze. But that is your fault; not theirs.

Freezing pipes when a building is at 40 degrees and outside temperatures are at zero (-18 C) identifies defective workmanship. Any underground pipe that freezes clearly violated a simple rule - it must be three feet (1 meter) or deeper (even underneath a garage floor).

Great in theory, but unrelated to the reality of old houses and different climates. For example, up here on the 43rd parallel, the frostline is 4 feet below grade. If there is a cold snap (-20 or -30 for a week) with no snow cover, as happens every six or seven years, water service entrance lines will freeze. It sucks. Another common problem is when the wind is strong, the temps are below zero and there are cracks in the foundation or gaps in the walls around windows, mouse eaten insulation or no insulation at all, the wind finds its way to a pipe and freezes it. Especially true in unheated basements. I've seen this happen in houses where the living space was at 68 degrees.

Why not stick to cars and 85% of top management instead of blaming plumbers for frozen pipes.

[tw]

Originally Posted by footfootfoot

Great in theory, but unrelated to the reality of old houses and different climates.

Even informed 1950 plumbers properly installed pipes. Then pipes did not freeze even in unheated basements.

Please comprehend what was posted; stop justifying bad workmanship with ignorance. In venues where a frost line is 4 feet, then pipes must be buried more than four feet down. Even a ditch digger knows pipes must always be below the frost line. If not, then pipes are reburied deeper.

If a house is at 40 degrees, then an unheated basement should never have frozen pipes. But some believe failure acceptable. They do not even patch foundation cracks (which are often due to defective workmanship in the footings), do not install missing insulation, and do not replace defective windows. Conditions acceptable only in abandon buildings or the ghetto.

85% of all frozen pipes are directly traceable to a naive or lazy human. Most learn from their mistakes. Since the solution is so simple, so well understood, and easy. A frozen water pipe is fixed so that it never freezes again even in -20 degree (-30 degree C) weather.

A pipe repeatedly frozen identifies a human in denial. Who would lash out rather than admit to why the problem exists.

[xoxoxoBruce]

a

[Griff]

Somebody is lashing out tonight. tw, maybe you could start a thread about whatever is bothering you?

[footfootfoot]

85% of the houses around here were built in the early 1800s and are uninsulated.

The foundations are dry stacked stone or mortared with sand and lime. The people living in the houses have trouble paying for heat AND food and certainly can't afford to parge their entire foundation inside and out.

Your argument is invalid.

[xoxoxoBruce]

And 38% don't own the joint.

[footfootfoot]

Ed Zachary.

[tw]

Originally Posted by footfootfoot

85% of the houses around here were built in the early 1800s and are uninsulated.

Then insulate it. Or, even better, get a kid to insulate it. 1800 vintage foundations can be plastered and fixed. Living in a home with defects does not justify those defect. Eliminating such problems are easy and often inexpensive. Pipes freeze when a defect is ignored.

Just because that makes you angry does not mean it is wrong or is an attack. It is a simple reality that applies to any old house that exists in a 21st Century modern society. Moving pipes to not freeze and installing insulation is now so easy that even teenagers can do it. You can get angry or you can eliminate the problem with trivial solutions.

If a frost line is 4 feet, then water pipes were buried more than 4 feet. Or that line is reburied deeper. How often are street mains freezing? Never. Because proper and standard workmanship is used.

Obviously that is not an attack. But some get angry (emotional) rather than realize a problem need not exist. The solution is so easy that you should be saying, "Good idea." Or should be asking for better ways to elminate a problem that need not exist. That is a logical response.

The house is historic because "George Washington slept here". Heat is turned down every night. That 1700s house has minimal changes (because it is historic) They did maintenance using proper workmanship. So its water pipes do not freeze.

Simple solutions never justified such an emotional outburst.

[footfootfoot]

Oh my god.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Ed Zachary.

[Griff]

Somebody needs to spend time with the working poor. That is coming through across threads.

[orthodoc]

If even teenagers can rebury pipes more than four feet deep from main to interior valve, surely you can, tw. Come now, do the adult thing and show these non-teenagers (and teenagers) how it's done.

Or live on the income of those who work three jobs and are still precarious, and see how much money and energy you have left at the end of the day (more likely, night) to rebury those pipes. Or just spend time with those who are more dedicated, energetic, and resourceful than you, but who still face challenges they aren't responsible for. It might move you toward becoming an adult.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Griff

Somebody needs to spend time with the working poor.

They would kill his smug ass in an hour.

[tw]

Originally Posted by orthodoc

If even teenagers can rebury pipes more than four feet deep from main to interior valve, surely you can, tw. Come now, do the adult thing and show these non-teenagers (and teenagers) how it's done.

Silly me. I tought that if someone missing one arm can do it, then anyone else can.

[sexobon]

Like wow man, that’s what Lieutenant Gerard said to Dr. Richard Kimble, déjà vu!