Government Shut Down

[glatt]

It's very interesting to me how this veterans turned away at the WW2 memorial site has resounded with Republicans. It's not just Adak, it's all over Facebook too.

At first I was like WTF? This is trivial. But then it struck me. Republicans (and conservatives) are all about symbolism. This is a perfect confluence of symbols. You have the veterans. You have a memorial, which is just some bricks and stones and fountains and stuff, but is the ultimate symbol, and you have the jackbooted thugs trying to stop the brave vets from paying their respects. It's a perfect confluence of symbolism for conservatives.

You might think that they would be upset over new cancer patients not getting into NIH studies, or social security payments being put in jeopardy in a couple weeks, or any of the thousands of other concrete things. But it's the symbolic stuff that speaks to them.

A handful of people were disappointed when their plans got messed up, so they made a fuss and got their plans straightened out. It's a non story. But the symbolism, man. The symbolism!

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by glatt

It's very interesting to me how this veterans turned away at the WW2 memorial site has resounded with Republicans.

I wonder why this large group of WW II vets happen to pick that day to visit?
Smells like teaparty to me.

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I wonder why this large group of WW II vets happen to pick that day to visit?
Smells like teaparty to me.

I don't think it's (all) due to the TeaParty... My wife has been taking
physical therapy for knee surgery, and several weeks ago she told me
that a elderly man in her PT group had been offered an "honor flight" to
DC (i.e., $ free) to visit the Memorial.

Besides, the TP'ers don't strike me as being that public spirited.
I think they are just taking advantage of a coincidental situation.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Looks like you're right, they're just opportunists, using the vets.

Numerous members of Congress were on hand Wednesday, ushering in dozens of veterans visiting the nation's capital through Honor Flights from Illinois and Missouri.

"We talked as members about making sure there were enough of us down here so we could get them in," said Rep. Michele Bachmann, R-Minn.

The National Park Service tweeted that the veterans would be able to see the monument that honors them. "The Honor Flights are being granted access to the WWII Memorial to conduct 1st Amendment actives in accordance with NPS regulations — Carol B Johnson (@NationalMallPIO) October 2, 2013"

Almost daily the Honor Flight Network brings groups of World War II veterans to the memorial.

[Lamplighter]

The government shut down is causing safety inspections to be omitted.

Washington braced for a prolonged shutdown, the first in 17 years,
this week after members of Congress failed to pass a budget.
The closure has affected the workforce of many climate and energy programs.

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), for one, lost more than
90 percent of its employees, disrupting monitoring of air and water quality
as well as potentially setting back efforts to advance the president’s climate plan.

Soon we will see industries burning off their wastes that otherwise
they would have to pay to process in hazardous waste disposal sites.

On top of that, brazen criminals are breaking federal laws by
tearing off the tags from their mattresses.

Oh, the humanity... think of the children

[xoxoxoBruce]

Campground and hotel reservations inside Yosemite were no longer being honored; visitors were issued refunds and told that they could no longer enter the park.

Authorities walked through the cluster of campgrounds in Yosemite Valley and told everyone remaining that they needed to leave the park by 3 p.m. Thursday. Hotels will serve breakfast to remaining guests Thursday, then begin shutting down.

Wednesday afternoon, Curry Village on the valley floor was almost deserted. It was silent, except for the sound of squirrels, birds and wind rustling through the trees.

Small rescue teams will still be available; this is a popular time of year for climbers to scale the park's famous "big walls," such as the monolith known as El Capitan. There will still be hikers in the backcountry for days to come; most were warned before leaving that a government shutdown was possible. And basic services — a market, a post office — will still be available to park employees who live there. "But the park will be closed," Gediman said.

link

[Adak]

Originally Posted by glatt

You might think that they would be upset over new cancer patients not getting into NIH studies, or social security payments being put in jeopardy in a couple weeks, or any of the thousands of other concrete things. But it's the symbolic stuff that speaks to them.

I'M SO GLAD you brought up the problem of new cancer patients getting into NIH studies.

It's their last hope - a new drug trial, when standard drugs have failed.

So Harry Reid was asked this VERY question about it by CNN's reporter. Here's what the bastard had to say:

Read this through and you'll understand EXACTLY why I hate the idea of the Feds running our health care, etc.

Because so many are like this Democratic leader:

From CNN and Canada Free Press:
http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/58331

Yesterday, during a press conference, CNN’s Dana Bash had a simple question for Harry Reid. Republicans in the House were promising to pass a CR funding the National Institutes of Health - thus allowing NIH research into childhood cancer to continue despite the shutdown - and Bash wanted to know if Reid and his cronies would allow it to pass the Senate.

After all, it would take a cruel, hubristic, thug to deny funding that could potentially save the life of an 8-year-old with leukemia, right?

“You all talked about children with cancer unable to go to clinical trials,” Bash pointed out. “The House is presumably going to pass a bill funds at least the NIH. Given what you’ve said, will you at least pass that? And if not, aren’t you playing the same political games that Republicans are?

Reid was indignant.

“Listen,” he barked. “Sen. Durbin explained that very well. And he did it here. He did it on the floor earlier - as did Sen. Schumer. What right did they have to pick and choose what part of government is going to be funded? It’s obvious what’s going on here. You talk about reckless and irresponsible. Wow! What this is all about is Obamacare. They are obsessed. I don’t know what other word I can use. I don’t know what other word I can use. They are obsessed with this Obamacare. It’s working. It’s working now and it will continue to work and people will love it more than they do now by far. “

“But,” Bash countered “If you can help one child who has cancer, why wouldn’t you do it?”

At this point, Reid still had a chance. There was still the possibility that he could turn it around, and not make himself look like the unfeeling big-government vermin we all know him to be. Reid failed to save his bacon.

“Why would we want to do that?” Reid said angrily. “I have 1,100 people at Nellis Air Force base that are sitting home. They have a few problems of their own. To have someone of your intelligence suggest such a thing maybe means you’re irresponsible and reckless.”

Here, we finally have some truth from the left. To a man like Harry Reid, who sees the world only in terms of political gamesmanship, kids are either pawns or burdens. Why would he want to save one child? Children can’t vote, they don’t donate to campaigns, and they have no power in the national news media.

Remember earlier this year when an 11-year-old Pennsylvania girl needed a lung transplant? Dems like HHS director Kathleen Sebilius said, hey “Some people live. Some people die.” In her mind, rules and politics trumped children. That’s what Sebilius believed then, and it’s what Harry Reid thinks today.

The fact that Reid is advancing an equivocation between children fighting cancer and non-essential civilian Air Force personnel being forced to take a few days off is stunning in its inhumanity.

So, to answer Harry’s point: YES. Conservatives are furious about Obamacare. Why would anyone want a gang of heartless bureaucrats involved with their health care, when they have such a monstrous track record?

And that's why I don't like Obamacare, or any gov't intrusion into any more area's of our lives.

We have them in too much of it, already.

[Lamplighter]

I agree that Reid "lost it" in this exchange, and it will be quoted again and again by the GOP.
But..., and there is a always a "but" with these kinds of "gotcha" scenes.

Just as the Reid lost this bout, the GOP face is losing in the long run because
that "just one child" was already waiting there in line all along ... well before
the GOP forced this shut down.

The GOP knew - or should have known - that NIH research would be affected,
and children would be dying because of their rigidity that caused the shut down.

It makes for juicy TV for both sides, but "just one child" is being overwhelmed
in public opinion by what caused it:

Rep. Marlin Stutzman, R-Ind.:

“We’re not going to be disrespected.
We have to get something out of this.
And I don’t know what that even is.”

[Adak]

No one would have predicted that the NIH would have been shut down, AND that the Senate would not approve (or possibly even vote on), a resolution from the House, to keep it working.

Marlin Stutzman sounds like he's been asleep for the last 5 days or so.

Another shut down victim:

Mt. Vernon museum - yes, George Washington's Home. The feds don't own it, so they couldn't shut it down - but they do own the land that the Mr. Vernon parking lot uses.

So they erected their Barrycades. The museum is still open, but you can't park your car as is normal.

It's all about making us uncomfortable. We the People don't own the parking lot - the gov't owns the parking lot, and they'll decide we We the People, can use it.

[Lamplighter]

No one would have predicted that the NIH would have been shut down,
AND that the Senate would not approve (or possibly even vote on),
a resolution from the House, to keep it working.

First, the position of the Senate was well-known before even
the first vote by the GOP demanding de-funding Obamacare.

Next, NIH did not shut down... they continued all patient support,
and interrupted only their non-essential management activities.

Further, the "just one child" is faux drama by the GOP.
NIH does not take on patient treatment for the sake of the person who is suffering.
Each individual is enrolled in NIH research only if they meet the given research criteria.
In fact, the person may be given "non-therapeutic treatment" as part of,
for example, a classic double-blind control study.

I agreed with you that the "gotcha" question sent Reid off in a tizzy,
but to suggest the GOP didn't know what they were doing or
could not foresee the ramifications is not tenable.

Bit then, if you want to argue the GOP does not know what it is doing,...

it says a something about (your opinion of) the GOP.

[Lamplighter]

This is the Google News on "Republicans" today (10/4/13), yet the GOP says they are winning.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Yeah, but that's just the liberal main stream media Obama owns.

[Adak]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

First, the position of the Senate was well-known before even
the first vote by the GOP demanding de-funding Obamacare.

So, because the Sen. Majority Leader Reid announces that he will let no compassionate bill be passed, during the shutdown...

Somehow, that makes him a good guy?? No! That just makes him a predetermined SonOfABitch.

Next, NIH did not shut down... they continued all patient support,
and interrupted only their non-essential management activities.

That wasn't argued. READ THE DAMN ARTICLE! NEW patients (including children), will NOT be accepted into NEW trials, because they "couldn't be registered", into them.

Somehow, due to the media coverage, the registration is now going forward. Problem solved. No thanks to Reid or the Democrats.

Further, the "just one child" is faux drama by the GOP.
NIH does not take on patient treatment for the sake of the person who is suffering.
Each individual is enrolled in NIH research only if they meet the given research criteria.
In fact, the person may be given "non-therapeutic treatment" as part of,
for example, a classic double-blind control study.

Quit the quibbling. It was not FAUX drama, and all the rest of the above is well known.

The point was, EVEN IF the patient met the study criteria, NO ONE was being admitted to them, because they "couldn't be registered", for it.
You can't fail to see the hand of the gov't bureaucrat in this.

I agreed with you that the "gotcha" question sent Reid off in a tizzy,
but to suggest the GOP didn't know what they were doing or
could not foresee the ramifications is not tenable.

Bit then, if you want to argue the GOP does not know what it is doing,...

it says a something about (your opinion of) the GOP.

The GOP knew what they were doing however, no one knows how the President will respond. He has fairly broad discretion in deciding what will, and what will not, be shut down.

But we can be sure that Obama will do everything he can to make us as uncomfortable as possible, during the shutdown. Then he will continue to make us paupers, at his leisure. I can hardly wait.

To be fair, Obama wasn't the first President to use this strategy. I'm hearing that Nixon came up with it, but never used it. I don't remember Ford using it during his shut down, but Ford was a nice guy. Same with Carter. Inept President, but undoubtedly one of the most civil Presidents we've ever had, despite some very trying times. (bad economy and hostages in Iran)

Clinton used it during the shutdown quarrel with Gingrich, closing the Washington Monument, I remember. He didn't close the open air memorials, I don't believe. Hard to remember it all.

Mainstream Republicans are VERY uncomfortable with the shutdown. This may be a harbinger of the future of politics. If the Democrats elect socialists, the conservatives will simply shut down the gov't, in order to be represented in a liberal government that, like Reid and Pelosi, want their way or the highway, for everybody else.

How can you negotiate something - anything - with a Harry Reid or Nancy Pelosi. They're absolutists, and will make it clear even before any "negotiations", that they won't negotiate.

Isn't that EXACTLY what Harry Reid did here? He finally got called into the White House to negotiate, but he wouldn't do it.

OK, you SonsOfBitches, enjoy your shut down.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Adak

Mainstream Republicans are VERY uncomfortable with the shutdown. This may be a harbinger of the future of politics. If the Democrats elect socialists, the conservatives will simply shut down the gov't, in order to be represented in a liberal government that, like Reid and Pelosi, want their way or the highway, for everybody else.

OR, the republicans could build their base by taking care of their constituents so they have enough votes to hold their own in congress, instead of whoring themselves to the 1%.