Obama Care vs Republicans

[Lamplighter]

Overheard today:

"My 6-year old is better at handling not getting her way than the Republicans"

[Adak]

Show me how the Democrats have compromised, lately!

The last great compromise (the "Contract with America") was when Clinton and Gingrich worked out some reforms and spending cuts, (which helped to really spur growth, and cut our deficit, btw).

And you may recall the gov't went through a shut down also, during their disagreements.

There was no concern in Obama Care for the essential (to my way of thinking at least), equality of the businesses and citizens. We've had:

*No pilot made to determine the REAL impact of Obama Care

*No period of study of the regulations (now at 10,000+ pages), before the bill was passed. It was "Vote for it now, and we'll write up the regulations for it later".

Health care is important to us all, and a huge part of our economy, as well. Don't just ram this down our throats and tell us to swallow it, or else.

Eliminating pre-existing conditions, allowing cross state competition among health care providers, and passing the 85% efficiency rule, along with Tort reform, would have been something both parties could have agreed to.

With the exemptions by the thousands coming out of Washington for Obama Care, I see a large loss of income for the program, and a large loss of people getting the health care.

How can you have the businesses with the most employees, getting opted out of the program? The whole purpose was to give these employees, health insurance - and thus get subscribers (businesses) paying into the program - not exemptions from it.

[Lamplighter]

Show me how the Democrats have compromised, lately!

I'll show you mine if you'll show me yours (i.e., how the Republicans have compromised, lately)

*No pilot made to determine the REAL impact of Obama Care

If not "pilot programs" of some kind, prior to passage of the ACA...
...what do you consider the Massachusetts' program under Romney?
...what do you consider the Oregon program under Kitzhabber ?
...there were probably several trial projects in other states earlier under
federally approved variations of their own Medicare/Medicaid programs.

Of course I've not yet seen an opponent of Obama that didn't consider
every situation "not the right way to do it" or "not the right time to do it"
Those are standard bullet points for the GOP.

*No period of study of the regulations (now at 10,000+ pages),
before the bill was passed. It was "Vote for it now, and we'll write up the regulations for it later".

Maybe we can agree that the regulations were probably not "read" by
every Congressman, but the overall plan was discussed for a long time,
with central features being made aware to everyone.
(You've listed a few in the paragraph below...)

Eliminating pre-existing conditions, allowing cross state competition
among health care providers, and passing the 85% efficiency rule,
along with Tort reform, would have been something both parties could have agreed to.

Pre-existing conditions and allowing cross state competition - obvious improvements

The 85% rule is simply one tool to force the insurance companies
and the health care providers to put their $ into delivery of care,
not advertising or CEO salaries or high MD payments or ultra-high cost hardware ?
I assume you are not opposed to all that; but if so, what are your reasons ?

Tort reform doesn't belong in this ACA legislation for several reasons,
Not only because it takes away the rights of patients to seek
recourse in the face of what courts determine to be negligence or malpractice,
but the health care insurer is not (usually) the same insurance carrier
as the "malpractice insurance company" for the medical personnel.
Tort reform did not fly previously, but it had little to do with the Democrats.
It failed to be enacted due to the lawyers in the crowd... many of whom were Republicans.

[Adak]

Originally Posted by orthodoc

Adak, please go and spend some time outside the US. Learn how people live on our planet when they aren't in that 1%. Or just spend some time in rural America, that would also do. You might learn that people have more pressing things on their minds than whether they should be offended that their doctor asks if they're sexually active.

Were the Adak Island geographical facts a thousand miles plus different from your pre-determinded fantasies?

Distance from Anchorage to Adak
Distance is 1926 kilometers or 1197 miles or 1040 nautical miles
The distance is the theoretical air distance (great circle distance). Flying between the two locations' airports can be a different distance, depending on airport location and actual route chosen.

That's more than the distance from Seattle, WA, to Los Angeles, CA, btw. (Adak Island is just a bit closer to Russia than it is to Anchorage.)

It is rather sad when you give advice, that you have NO IDEA what you're talking about.

"spend some time in rural America",

What a laugh.

[Adak]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

I'll show you mine if you'll show me yours (i.e., how the Republicans have compromised, lately)

How about every debt limit being raised since Obama came into office?

The Republicans want generally LESS government regulations and intrusions into our lives. LESS spending by the gov't, LOWER taxes, means less $$$ taken out of our paychecks and wallets.

There was no mandate given by the Constitution, that the House needs to keep funding programs it doesn't like - and that includes raising the debt limit - but the Republicans have gone along with it, several times. WITHOUT demanding any programs be removed from the Democrats.

Now your turn. Name spending cuts (not FUTURE spending cuts that probably will never materialize, but ACTUAL NOW spending cuts), that Obama and the Democrats have supported.

How about them noisy crickets, eh?

If not "pilot programs" of some kind, prior to passage of the ACA...
...what do you consider the Massachusetts' program under Romney?
...what do you consider the Oregon program under Kitzhabber ?
...there were probably several trial projects in other states earlier under
federally approved variations of their own Medicare/Medicaid programs.

But they're a FAR cry from Obama Care, and the Mass. program has practically bankrupted the state - a total failure. The Oregon program CAN'T bankrupt the state, but it's also harsh - nonetheless, I would definitely support this program.

Of course I've not yet seen an opponent of Obama that didn't consider every situation "not the right way to do it" or "not the right time to do it". Those are standard bullet points for the GOP.

I agree, it happens WAY too often. A real distrust and dislike builds up as the lies roll out, however. Lies like the "video demonstration causing the attack", in Benghazi. That was horrible. I can't begin to tell you how much goodwill and trust Obama lost after that fiasco.

Maybe we can agree that the regulations were probably not "read" by
every Congressman, but the overall plan was discussed for a long time, with central features being made aware to everyone.
(You've listed a few in the paragraph below...)

The regulations for Obama Care weren't even mostly WRITTEN when the vote was made. They were passing a law that was totally incomplete.

No, I'm not opposed to them - I strongly support them!

Tort reform doesn't belong in this ACA legislation for several reasons,
Not only because it takes away the rights of patients to seek
recourse in the face of what courts determine to be negligence or malpractice,
but the health care insurer is not (usually) the same insurance carrier
as the "malpractice insurance company" for the medical personnel.
Tort reform did not fly previously, but it had little to do with the Democrats.

It failed to be enacted due to the lawyers in the crowd... many of whom were Republicans.

We need Tort reform. Requiring a surgeon to carry hundreds of thousand of dollars cost, per year of malpractice insurance, is ridiculous, and just jacks up the cost of health care, incredibly. The reform bill don't have to be a part of the ACA - we just need them.

[Lamplighter]

Adak's predicted "kicker" has fizzled... as has his hero, the Texas Senator's attempt to sway his party...

WASHINGTON — Republican Senator Ted Cruz’s 21-hour, 19-minute verbal assault
on President Obama’s signature health care law ended Wednesday
when the Senate voted 100-to-0 to move to consider House legislation
that Democrats plan to use to keep the government open next week.

It doesn't happen very often for just 1 Senator to antagonize all 99 others.

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by Adak

Show me how the Democrats have compromised, lately! <snip>

There was an interview on TV this morning that helped explain (to me anyhow) why
Harry Reid was so emotional yesterday during a news conference on the government shut down.

Reid believes that John Boehner reneged in their September agreement
on the upcoming budget and debt ceiling deadlines.
In such political agreements, your word is more than your bond... it's your entire reputation.

I found this article from yesterday that recounts some of Reid's remarks...

The Hill
10/3/13

<snip>Reid said Boehner could not deliver on a deal the two agreed to
after the August recess to fund the government because conservatives in his party
have pressured him to combine the delay or defunding of ObamaCare with government funding.

Reid was echoing similar comments he made earlier in the day.
He said leaders had already compromised on a deal to keep sequester-level funding
of $988 billion a year as the baseline for the continuing resolution.<snip>

Democrats have preferred a continuing resolution about
$70 billion higher than the current spending bill being debated.
“That is why we agreed to that lower number,” Reid said.
“That is one of the largest compromises since I’ve been in Congress.
That is a big deal, $70 billion just like that. And he couldn’t deliver.”

[Dagney]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

Overheard today:

"My 6-year old is better at handling not getting her way than the Republicans"

There is much much love for this statement in my heart right now.

43 votes to overturn - and they still don't get their way - let's go for 44....because what the hey, we don't have anything REAL to do.

[Lamplighter]

How about every debt limit being raised since Obama came into office?

Ummm....





Of course, Obama had to pay for GW Bush's wars which were run "off budget"
Had Bush/Cheney paid for their own wars, the numbers would be quite different.